Very large panel glue up, advice needed

[danst96]

As mentioned in an earlier post, I'm making a worktop for a bar in my house out of red oak which I'll be staining black.

I want to have a single continuous panel look rather than 2 pieces attached together, overall length will be 11 foot.

My plan is to glue up as per the rough layout in the picture attached. I will use Domino's to help with alignment.

I plan on using titebond 3 to give me a little extra gluing time.

Is there anything I'm missing or any suggestions to help make this go smoothly?

 

[woodieallen]

Switch off your mobile. Put on some nice calming classical music. Lock the door and stick up a sign "Do NOT disturb".

Get everything ready, clamps etc. Run through the step in your mind. Do a dry fit with some sanded down Domino's.

How are you going to stop them bowing up when you clamp them across the width ?

Are you planning to put Domino's in the cut ends? I know I would.

Don't expect the final surface to be perfect. It will need some sanding to get out those miniscule but feelable slight differences in height.

 

[eribaMotters]

I would not attempt that in one hit. I'd treat the glue up like when I laid an engineered oak flor in an irregular room. Glue up the central 3 x runs of board into a blank and then leave 24 hours. Next glue up boards onto each edge of your central blank. This should give you less of a headache and allow any slight corrections.

Colin

 

[Jameshow]

Your timber looks quite thin are you going to put stretchers underneath and slots to help stabilize it??

Nice workshop btw!

 

[Jacob]

Sounds long winded but it can save a lot of messing about if you glue up adding just one board at a time, then making sure the next one is a good fit etc.
Can drive you mad if you get one joint all aligned and tight and another one suddenly springs at the other end, all the time the glue is going off and getting harder to do

 

[Inspector]

I was taught to do wide glue ups in stages. Basically what others are saying but I don't type as fast. Only thickness what you need to to get a relatively even surface and then glue the boards together but no more width than your thicknesser can handle, 12" for example. Try to glue so the grain direction won't cause tear out. Thickness to size after the initial glue up and then glue the wide boards together. Now you only have one or two joints to manage instead of five or more. You already went past that but you can still glue things in a couple stages to make it easier.

I did ebonized oak countertops and fireplace mantle using steel wool and vinegar to make the Iron Acetate solution and I also made a tannin mixture (wine tannin powder from Amazon or wine making shops and water) to make it even blacker. It is an old technique. I did several rounds over the course of a few days. Tannin, Iron Acetate, Tannin, Iron Acetate, and Tannin. The grain will raise with the first application or two which I took off with fine paper. I finished with Tried and True finish from Lee Valley, an oil/wax finish I believe. SWMBO really liked it and as I used salvaged pews it cost a lot less than the granite she originally wanted. Not as quick as some dyes or stains perhaps but I like how it turned out. If you want more detail on making the solution let me know.

Pete

Tannin on the oak.

Final application with a light steel wool rub after it dried.

Mantle after finishing with the oil/wax.

Good enough for Christmas and a break. Handles left to do. A triangular lid goes in the right corner yet to be done. Cabinets were store bought but I installed them and we hired the stonework out.

 

[danst96]

Your timber looks quite thin are you going to put stretchers underneath and slots to help stabilize it??

Nice workshop btw!

Yes, I will add some c-channel underneath to help stabilize the panel, my wife wanted a thin top

 

[danst96]

Thanks for the advice all, I'm going to take a the approach suggested by Eriba, Jacob and inspector.

@Inspector , I wish I had reached out earlier because your suggestion makes a ton of sense and I should have done it that way, oh well we will work with what's in front of us.

I would be interested in knowing more about the mix you used for the ebonized finish, it looks exactly like what I want to achieve

 

[baldkev]

Thanks for the advice all, I'm going to take a the approach suggested by Eriba, Jacob and inspector.

@Inspector , I wish I had reached out earlier because your suggestion makes a ton of sense and I should have done it that way, oh well we will work with what's in front of us.

I would be interested in knowing more about the mix you used for the ebonized finish, it looks exactly like what I want to achieve

Me too, i havent tried ebonizing. I did try to make rusty solution to add to the oak ( white vinegar and steel wool ) but it didnt work, the wool didnt break down

 

[Matty]

Yes, I will add some c-channel underneath to help stabilize the panel, my wife wanted a thin top

Yes that's what I was going to suggest

 

[Matty]

I was taught to do wide glue ups in stages. Basically what others are saying but I don't type as fast. Only thickness what you need to to get a relatively even surface and then glue the boards together but no more width than your thicknesser can handle, 12" for example. Try to glue so the grain direction won't cause tear out. Thickness to size after the initial glue up and then glue the wide boards together. Now you only have one or two joints to manage instead of five or more. You already went past that but you can still glue things in a couple stages to make it easier.

I did ebonized oak countertops and fireplace mantle using steel wool and vinegar to make the Iron Acetate solution and I also made a tannin mixture (wine tannin powder from Amazon or wine making shops and water) to make it even blacker. It is an old technique. I did several rounds over the course of a few days. Tannin, Iron Acetate, Tannin, Iron Acetate, and Tannin. The grain will raise with the first application or two which I took off with fine paper. I finished with Tried and True finish from Lee Valley, an oil/wax finish I believe. SWMBO really liked it and as I used salvaged pews it cost a lot less than the granite she originally wanted. Not as quick as some dyes or stains perhaps but I like how it turned out. If you want more detail on making the solution let me know.

Pete

Tannin on the oak.
View attachment 153772


Final application with a light steel wool rub after it dried.
View attachment 153773


Mantle after finishing with the oil/wax.
View attachment 153774


Good enough for Christmas and a break. Handles left to do. A triangular lid goes in the right corner yet to be done. Cabinets were store bought but I installed them and we hired the stonework out.
View attachment 153776

love the finish, can I have the recipe please as I would love to try it out

 

[Inspector]

Ebonizing is very easy. There is lots on the web if you want to poke around a bit.

Get steel wool making sure it isn't oiled to prevent rust. If it is you'll have to wash it out with dish soap and rinse it clean. Iron filings or fine swarf from turning or milling metal will work too. Put it in a large jar and weigh it down to keep it from floating. Piece of iron or a rock. Pour white vinegar on it until it is well covered. The chemical reaction releases hydrogen so poke holes in the jar's lid or leave it loose to let it escape or the container may burst. The white vinegar from the grocery store is good or the slightly stronger pickling or cleaning vinegar work. Stir the jar once a day and in less than a week it should be all dissolved. If it dissolved quick add more wool. If the wool didn't fully dissolve add more vinegar. Pour it through an old T-shirt to strain out the stuff left. Now you have your Iron Acetate solution. It will make woods with high tannin turn black. Oak (heartwood) is the best known. Woods without tannins like maple, alder, poplar, cherry etc can have tannin added to the wood to make them turn black too.

An easy way to make a tannin solution is with black tea. Put 4 or more teabags in a cup of boiling water, I shouldn't have to tell you guys how to make a strong tea, and let it steep, soak or whatever a while. I don't drink the stuff, coffee either, so I went online and ordered wine tannin powder. You can also get it at the wine making places that sell kits for making wine in their store or you take home. Mine was chestnut bark based and was about $15Cad to my door. I mixed it into a jar of boiling water until some remained undissolved in the bottom. Apply it to the wood, foam brush is good, and let it dry. Then apply the Iron Acetate and watch the wood start turning black before your eyes. Magic! If it isn't black enough repeat the process until it is. Note it will be blue black looking until the finish is put on. When it is nice and dry apply your finish. Finishes with a yellowish look to them like BLO, polyurethane, spar varnish etc make it a nicer black.

Also very important. Wear gloves as your fingers can get just as black. Old clothing is a good idea too.

That's all there is to it. Play with some scraps and see for yourself. Nice thing about is it isn't environmentally toxic like some chemicals are.

Pete

 

[Matty]

Nice, I made a solution like that when I was messing around a few years back but obviously didn't make it properly. mine stained an old oak worktop but didn't go deep black. I will try again though as yours looks really nice

 

[Inspector]

Nice, I made a solution like that when I was messing around a few years back but obviously didn't make it properly. mine stained an old oak worktop but didn't go deep black. I will try again though as yours looks really nice

If one application doesn't produce the results you want, do it again. Don't put a finish on until you are happy with the blackness.

Pete

 

[Essex Barn Workshop]

I have made similar tops a few times, including this desk top for my daughter

and to pull the lengths together as they glued up, as i don't have a 1900mm clamp, I used pocket holes.

 

[danst96]

Stage 1 went without a hiccup

I also don't have clamps that go 3.65m however 3 x 1500mm besseys worked ok.

Wondering whether I should turn this thread into a WIP

 

[danst96]

Other parts I've been working on, maple veneer carcass and solid maple drawer boxes

 

[Inspector]

Good improvising by tripling the clamps. If you were going to make a habit of doing long glue-ups I would tell you to get some pipe clamp heads and a few lengths of pipe, threads at each end. That lets you join them into a long clamp with couplings or the protective ones they put on the ends of full lengths of new pipe. Same thing but a little thinner. Easier than juggling the three clamps especially if you work alone.

Pete

 

[danst96]

Yeh some pipe clamps would make a lot of sense here. I don't have any other very long glue ups on the horizon for now but definitely something for the future

 

[Matty]

sash clamps are always handy as you can grind the stop off the end and then use the pins on the stops to join the bars together to make an extra long clamp, with the help of a little tape. I have a bunch of ones I got from a second hand shop for a 5er and they have got me out of a few sticky situations!