veritas LAJ A2 or O1 blades?

[Peter Sefton]

Please do share your views and experience it is how we all learn and improve our woodworking.

Cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

........ I actually find his A2 cryo irons rather better than Veritas and LN...............
The man who didn't even have the wit to test the differences between the A2 and O1 blades when he had them, has nothing worthwhile to comment on the subject, by default........

.

A man who thinks he can tell the difference between his favoured guru's A2 steel, and all the others, has a bit of a problem! Does A2 steel vary according to who has touched it? NB Hock hasn't touched the French made ones at all, presumably just sent them a drawing and a logo design.

 

[Jacob]

.....Do I risk sharing that view here, probably not...........

:lol:
No you should say what you think - I always do!

There is a very strong guru-based mind-set amongst modern amateur woodworkers with certain characters on the media circus given inordinate respect and their texts revered and worshipped. Counter comments get treated like blasphemy!
Hence the rabid commitment to this idea of ever diminishing radii - even though it is counter to everything we can see (micro and macro) and the guru is a bit vague and contradictory about it himself.
I think it is not good and it stifles discussions. Much safer and more interesting to be sceptical about everything and say what you think, though this can attract personal comments from the less robust amongst us, who aren't at ease with grown up discussions!

 

[mickthetree]

you know when you wish you hadn't started something....

 

[Jacob]

you know when you wish you hadn't started something....

Yes it's all your fault!

NB I don't blame the gurus particularly - they are no doubt just doing their best and it's not entirely their fault that they have gurudom thrust upon them by their fans, who seem to want the security of certainty and holy texts.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

This mockery of serious individuals, who know a great deal more about their subject, than Jacob does, seems both spiteful and demeaning.
Shame. David

Don't knock it entirely David. It has it's uses, even if for no other reason than the entertainment value it provides for me, a know nothing toad when it comes to sharpening planes and chisels and working wood, and generally one that prefers a completely no-frills sharp'n'go approach to the whole messy business of beating wood into some sort of semblance of order with bits of steel that have been pointed up a bit on a handy concrete step ... or whatever sharpening means is to hand, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[bugbear]

A man who thinks he can tell the difference between his favoured guru's A2 steel, and all the others, has a bit of a problem! Does A2 steel vary according to who has touched it?

Knowledgeable woodworkers at the turn of the century certainly spoke of significant difference between the various tools (and makers) who were all using O1 steel.

Or did they all have a problem too?

Perhaps when you get your hearing aid back, you'll be better at listening to others.

BugBear

 

[Racers]

Hello,

I have met Ron Hock and been to his workshop. He is a very nice and knowledgeable man. His blades are produced to his specs in th USA and France, as they have the scale to mass produce that his little one an shop is not capable. He did produce them there himself until the scale of operations needed to be bigger. I actually find his A2 cryo irons rather better than Veritas and LN.

He still produces special items, knives and things for the more specialised client. And taught me a little about hardening and tempering.

Mike.

.

Hi Mike

I have been to his workshop as well, he is a nice bloke.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

A man who thinks he can tell the difference between his favoured guru's A2 steel, and all the others, has a bit of a problem! Does A2 steel vary according to who has touched it?

Knowledgeable woodworkers at the turn of the century certainly spoke of significant difference between the various tools (and makers) who were all using O1 steel.

Or did they all have a problem too?....

Very likely. It's not new this tendency towards blind faith and crediting people with special (supernatural?) powers.
Useful of course to remember the sources of good service, but not to get carried away.

 

[G S Haydon]

Hi Jacob,

I think you should take some time and write your own guide to hand tools. A bit like all the old joinery books have at the start. Covering setting, using, sharpening etc. An e-book would not be too much effort. Put it out there and see if it gains traction. Who knows perhaps you to could become a guru too (hammer) .

Pleased to hear to good feedback on Mr Hock. I know nothing about him but if he is like other "guru" types, in my limited experience I have found them approachable, knowledgeable and talented. If they were not up to it or their knowledge was so poor I would assume the wheels would of come off for them by now. That's not to say things should not be challenged, explored and reviewed.

 

[iNewbie]

Had a look. He says "there will always be some radius to an edge". I think this virtually meaningless but I now see which guru you are all mindlessly following and quoting word for word!

Personally. I don't follow anyone. I assume - rather than state as fact - a lot of others don't too. But don't let your opinion get in the way of your assumptions. Carry On.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I assume there will always be "some radius to an edge" until someone discovers a sharp molecule.

 

[G S Haydon]

I assume there will always be "some radius to an edge" until someone discovers a sharp molecule.

Not to mention all those electrons spinning around atoms, no wait, I just sharpened an electron 8)

 

[Kalimna]

Actually, even if strings do exist (of superstring theory, proposed successor to quantum theory), then they too will have a defined non-zero size and hence would result in an edge with some degree of radius/thickness. A perfect edge is impossible, but most folk can aspire to getting as close as possible with the tools we have.

Adam

 

[Jacob]

....A perfect edge is impossible....

Definitely. The higher the magnification the rougher they look.

 

[Corneel]

Well, radius is a poor word to describe a sharp edge, because radius implies something round. And sharp edges are far from round, worn edges ones are round. You can see that very clearly on the pictures in the paper from prof. Kato I linked to above. Thickness of the edge would be a better word.

With that out of the way; Mike, do you think at very obtuse cutting angles, the better sharpness of an O1 blade is an advantage over A2? Even when A2 should have better edge retention? At high cutting angles edges wear quite a bit faster. I don't know which one of the two features would prevail in this case. And it's not likely I'm ever going to find out!

 

[G S Haydon]

OK,

I'll come out with it I don't know too much about these various blades. Could someone do a quick Pro a Con on them,

Chromium Vanadium - 01 - 02 - Laminated - PM-V11 - High Carbon Steel

Thanks in advance

 

[Corneel]

Just a very coarse write up, and opinions vary a lot on this.

High carbon steel. Steel with a lot of carbon and not much else. Good old fashioned stuff, can get a very sharp edge. Not very durable edgelife. Difficult to harden without warping and cracking. Some are oil cooled during hardening, others water cooled. Very easy to sharpen.

O1. Quite similar to high carbon. Oil cooled. Easy to sharpen.

A2, a toolsteel with some chrome and other components. Doesn't get quite as sharp, but a bit better wearing. Air cooled. A little harder to sharpen.

PMV11 is a powder steel. Powdered elements are mixed together and under very hoigh temps and pressure converted into toolsteel. this makes it possible to very carefully controll the composition of the steel. Nobody knows what it is. Rumours say it sharpens to an edge like A2, but with better wear and still easy to sharpen. A bit of the holy grail it seems.

 

[bobbybirds]

Holy thread derail Batman!!!

 

[woodbrains]

I assume there will always be "some radius to an edge" until someone discovers a sharp molecule.

Precisely, except that the steel grains are made up of larger lumps than atoms and molecules, so it is grain size that dictates the smallest size at the edge. O1 reputedly has smaller grains therefore sharper edge.

Hock A2 cryo has smaller grains than regular A2 and this can be noticed when sharpening, the wire edge releases a little easier and the result is sharper. It feels less 'plastic' on the stone. If my noticing this gives me a problem, then I'm sorry. I guess there is a level of detail some people notice and others don't see.

Mike.