VED musings

[woodieallen]

Interesting Youtube video from a petrolhead who owned a Porsche EV Taycan and like other EV Taycan owners had received a letter from Porsche saying 'Do not park the car near a building as there is a chance it could catch fire'.

He contacted his insurance company posing as an enquirer and not as an owner "What would happen to my insurance if I got this letter ? ". Not a good idea using your actual phone to call them. The same number that he gave when he took out the policy.

 

[woodieallen]

I think the risk data that's affecting the Volvo from the outset (no mods) is the 2.3L engine. Again, anything over 2L, it seems, gets the computer's 'no'. Regardless of the car's limited performance.

..

Same as life cover once you get over a certain age

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Interesting Youtube video from a petrolhead who owned a Porsche EV Taycan and like other EV Taycan owners had received a letter from Porsche saying 'Do not park the car near a building as there is a chance it could catch fire'.

He contacted his insurance company posing as an enquirer and not as an owner "What would happen to my insurance if I got this letter ? ". Not a good idea using your actual phone to call them. The same number that he gave when he took out the policy.

I've watched a few of that guy's Taycan videos. I'm suspicious of his constant clickbait. I think he's milking it for revenue.

 

[sploo]

I think the risk data that's affecting the Volvo from the outset (no mods) is the 2.3L engine. Again, anything over 2L, it seems, gets the computer's 'no'. Regardless of the car's limited performance.

There's something odd about it tho - for about the same money as the unmodified Volvo, he's recently been quoted for a 3.5 V8 TVR and a 4.0 inline 6 Jaguar. The trick seems to be to go for something other youngsters/ high risk people don't drive, then there's limited stats (at least, that's our guess).

He has a 125 KMX motorbike, about 500 to insure; he tried to insure a 1953 BSA Bantam (worth less, and ridiculously low power) and the best price was about £2.5k.

No doubt the price of insuring a Sierra Cosworth would be tied to stats, of course.

It seems to me insurance is its own hallucinogenic world where prices frequently wander from day to day, regardless of sense or stats.

Yep. Many many moons ago a mate of mine tried to insure a Peugeot 205; which (as a young guy) was going to be astronomically expensive... until he told them it was a diesel.

Despite the diesel having more power than some of the lower spec petrol models, the insurance companies databases essentially had "young guy + 205 = wants 205 GTI, will drive into a hedge"... for all except the oil-burner, as it didn't have any "cred"... so was cheap to cover.

I could understand some Jags not being too bad to insure (not that popular with boy racers I suspect), but I'm surprised about TVRs... mostly because they do have a reputation for being backwards, on fire, or backwards and on fire .

 

[sploo]

I've watched a few of that guy's Taycan videos. I'm suspicious of his constant clickbait. I think he's milking it for revenue.

Pretty certain I saw a video of his where he was going on about problems with EV devaluation; except he waffled for absolutely ages (saying basically nothing) and in the end it was essentially a case that he was pretty poor at financial planning

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Yep. Many many moons ago a mate of mine tried to insure a Peugeot 205; which (as a young guy) was going to be astronomically expensive... until he told them it was a diesel.

Despite the diesel having more power than some of the lower spec petrol models, the insurance companies databases essentially had "young guy + 205 = wants 205 GTI, will drive into a hedge"... for all except the oil-burner, as it didn't have any "cred"... so was cheap to cover.

I could understand some Jags not being too bad to insure (not that popular with boy racers I suspect), but I'm surprised about TVRs... mostly because they do have a reputation for being backwards, on fire, or backwards and on fire .

Approx 75% of all TVR accidents involve no other vehicles.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Pretty certain I saw a video of his where he was going on about problems with EV devaluation; except he waffled for absolutely ages (saying basically nothing) and in the end it was essentially a case that he was pretty poor at financial planning

Kind of. Not exactly, though. Porsche Finance figures, on a PCP style deal, give a residual value at the end of term. New EV market, undiscovered, unknown market. They got the depreciation wrong. Normally Porsche keep better value than most. Except this time the market has shunned used Taycans, bringing residuals to WELL below expected values. Poor guy is stuck with his car in negative equity. Not all his fault.
Porsche main dealers themselves are extremely reluctant to accept used Taycans back into used stock. Further affecting residuals. It wasn't something that could be easily predicted 3 years ago.

 

[woodieallen]

I've watched a few of that guy's Taycan videos. I'm suspicious of his constant clickbait. I think he's milking it for revenue.

They all do.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

They all do.

Some are more transparently "clickbaity" than others.
People like JayEmm on Cars or Chris Harris or Matt Armstrong or Tavarish or Jack Builds It or Mighty Car Mods or Project Binky or Speed Academy are actually both informative and entertaining instead of clickbaity, and earn their income from working for it by creating decent content.

 

[Lons]

Kind of. Not exactly, though. Porsche Finance figures, on a PCP style deal, give a residual value at the end of term. New EV market, undiscovered, unknown market. They got the depreciation wrong. Normally Porsche keep better value than most. Except this time the market has shunned used Taycans, bringing residuals to WELL below expected values. Poor guy is stuck with his car in negative equity. Not all his fault.
Porsche main dealers themselves are extremely reluctant to accept used Taycans back into used stock. Further affecting residuals. It wasn't something that could be easily predicted 3 years ago.

I've seen a few of his videos and he does go on a bit but I got the impression his car is leased. He said recently he could just hand it back at the end of the agreement. He will lose out of course if no residual value to use as deposit on his next car which will likely not be EV

He was a bit of a numpty ringing his insurance company from his mobile basically telling them that he has a car that the manufacturers say could burn down both car and his home (or anything else he parks next to). Like anyone else who's seen those videos I won't be parking anywhere near a Taycan

 

[John Brown]

Interesting Youtube video from a petrolhead who owned a Porsche EV Taycan and like other EV Taycan owners had received a letter from Porsche saying 'Do not park the car near a building as there is a chance it could catch fire'.

He contacted his insurance company posing as an enquirer and not as an owner "What would happen to my insurance if I got this letter ? ". Not a good idea using your actual phone to call them. The same number that he gave when he took out the policy.

A friend of mine in the village has one. I'll ask him if he's had such a letter. Sounds like made up nonsense to me.

Apart from anything else, why would a petrol head but an EV Taycan?

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

A friend of mine in the village has one. I'll ask him if he's had such a letter. Sounds like made up nonsense to me.

Apart from anything else, why would a petrol head but an EV Taycan?

Ahem, the term "petrol head" doesn't restrict one to petrol only. It covers a variety of car enthusiast elements:
For some it is show and shine.
For others it's track days.
Yet others it's simply the community and connection to other like minded people.
Classic cars.
Simple speed is a draw for some.
For some of us it is the driving experience and feedback and pleasure of placing a vehicle accurately on a twisty road.

For me it is the latter category that brings most enjoyment. Simple speed just doesn't matter. Feedback is everything. For instance, In 2018 I bought a new M3 Competition DCT. It was beautiful and it was fast as hell and there was tons of grip, but sadly precious little feedback or detail from the steering or the chassis. It was sterile. It had to go. Was replaced by a slower car but with infinitely more communication and detail from the touch points.

Taycans are fast as hell, being electric, but they also include Porsche DNA and Porsche does the best electric steering of all. So they're not numb like a Tesla, which are also fast as hell but not particularly "petrolheady" whereas the Taycan arguably is.

It must be the same in woodwork world? Some do wood turning. Some do hand tools and dovetail boxes. Others do power tools and build furniture. Yet others carve sculptures. Etc.
Being a newb, I'm not the expert here. But I can talk about Petrolhead with the best.

Coincidentally, I'm very recently (within the past week) thinking about getting a Taycan. Was supposed to go for a test drive today but my local specialist needed the day off, so the test drive is on hold.

 

[woodieallen]

A friend of mine in the village has one. I'll ask him if he's had such a letter. Sounds like made up nonsense to me.

Apart from anything else, why would a petrol head but an EV Taycan?

Funny you should say that as when I Googled it you'd have thought that there would be a lot out there about it but I couldn't find nowt. Clickbait ?

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Funny you should say that as when I Googled it you'd have thought that there would be a lot out there about it but I couldn't find nowt. Clickbait ?

All Lithium battery cars could catch on fire with just a little bit of damage or even a manufacturing defect.
Damage in conjunction with charging/overcharging/charger malfunction or reaction with water...
Lithium batteries can go into thermal runaway and cannot be extinguished by any normal means.
Taycans are 800V which is unusual up to this point in time - normal EV batteries are 400V. This is why insurance for EVs is steep. An inextinguishable thermal runaway fire in a multi storey car park is a worst case scenario.

 

[woodieallen]

A A

All Lithium battery cars could catch on fire with just a little bit of damage or even a manufacturing defect.
Damage in conjunction with charging/overcharging/charger malfunction or reaction with water...
Lithium batteries can go into thermal runaway and cannot be extinguished by any normal means.
Taycans are 800V which is unusual up to this point in time - normal EV batteries are 400V. This is why insurance for EVs is steep. An inextinguishable thermal runaway fire in a multi storey car park is a worst case scenario.

I am well aware of the dangers of a lithium fire. I was actually referring to the existence of the letter from Porsche.

 

[Scruples]

Couldn't quite follow this. Are you saying that classic cars not requiring MOTs won't be taxable? Can't see why - they could be taxed on the fuel, on the mileage, flat rates, etc etc.

Is someone on a creative fiction writing course, do you think?

 

[woodieallen]

Couldn't quite follow this. Are you saying that classic cars not requiring MOTs won't be taxable? Can't see why - they could be taxed on the fuel, on the mileage, flat rates, etc etc.

Missing the point. The context is that as EV's increase in numbers, less fuel tax. That is the starting point. No-one is talking about getting rid of VED/flat rate. To replace the fuel duty, charging people on the miles that they drive is one alternative but needs a simple method of recording the mileage. That simple method is using the mileage entered into the Govt database when you get an MOT.

But no doubt you will disagree, obfuscate or complicate the discussion.

 

[Jacob]

All Lithium battery cars could catch on fire with just a little bit of damage or even a manufacturing defect.
Damage in conjunction with charging/overcharging/charger malfunction or reaction with water...
Lithium batteries can go into thermal runaway and cannot be extinguished by any normal means.

If not resolved with 100% confidence it could be the end of the whole idea. Time will tell as more and more old batteries are in circulation.
In any case I reckon it's about saving the motor industry, not the planet.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-evs-coming-to-europe-save-european-carmakers
We need more public transport, where electric power is safe, tried and tested, old technology.

 

[Jacob]

....

But no doubt you will .......obfuscate or complicate the discussion.

I think you've already managed that quite well yourself, with no help from me!

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

A A

I am well aware of the dangers of a lithium fire. I was actually referring to the existence of the letter from Porsche.

Cool. Not everyone is aware of thermal runaway <- you do know that, right?
I wouldn't go all out and suggest that the MacMaster was a liar, so the letter from Porsche probably exists in some shape or form - pending a recall action, obviously - after which there ought to be some form of reset within the insurance circle.

[If Porsche won't underwrite the safety of their cars - then the insurance companies will balk at insuring them. Until such times as Porsche underwrite the safety of the Taycan - such as performing a recall campaign and declaring them safe - then insurers will not insure them and this will result in a stoppage of sales for Porsche. The ball is in Porsche's court. If they want to continue selling EVs, they must retract that statement of "don't park your car next to your house" and in so doing open the doors to being compelled to accept any potential class action against them for spontaneous fires. If they don't retract, then this has the potential to sink the company. So some kind of equilibrium will be found over the coming months...]

What I will say, however, is that the MacMaster is obviously a bit of a dong. If he wasn't insured, like he implied throughout his video, then he wouldn't be posting a video to the internet after filming himself driving around in his uninsured car while also talking to some other potential dong on his handsfree telling what is absolutely clearly only half a story - this is obviously a narrative that he personally want's to push and in my view this is the sole reason for his clickbait to draw people in so that he can obfuscate the reality with a personal narrative.
It's a shame.
Reading between the lines - my personal view is that he has a bone to pick, possibly because of the depreciation on his car, or something else he perceives that Porsche has done, and therefore wants to do all in his means to discredit Porsche in particular, and the EV industry in general.