Using No 7 Jointer As A smoother?

[pollys13]

I read some people use their No 7 jointer as a smoother. Would it be appropriate to use the jointer as a smoother for cleaning up planer ripple on the faces and edges of house door rails and stiles?

Or considering the weight of the jointer would it be best to use the No 4?Or the No 5 jack plane set up as a smoother? Because the jointer is such a long plane, because of the length of door rail edges, faces the jointer might be the better tool to use?
Cheers.

 

[thetyreman]

it could potentially work as a smoother, if you set the frog to a very narrow setting and blade as close to the cap iron as possible, it will then take off very fine shavings, but yeah I'd rather use a 4 1/2 or 4 specifically for smoothing, they are perfect for it.

 

[rafezetter]

When using my #7 bailey jointer I used to back it off for the final couple of passes then bring it back so it was barely skimming off the tops of any imperfections I'd added from spot planing, so maybe only snagging a few points along the surface until I got a last full shaving pass that was very fine. This also had the effect of adding that sheen of a smoother - obviously this last was done right after refreshing the blade edge.

I did this for the same reasoning as you that the jointer being longer would only catch on the very tiny imperfections and smooth out overall - I'd no idea others did it, it just felt logical on longer pieces (no formal planing training I add, so maybe this is how it's supposed to be done! )

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Custard will be along to advise.

 

[custard]

If you train at the Edward Barnsley Workshops you're only allowed one bench plane, a number 7. You would also have a block plane, so basically that was your choice at the bench. You use one, or you use the other. Simple!

There's various theories about why the number 7 is preferred; apprentices don't have much money so if you can only afford one bench plane then make it a big 'un (I suspect a similar logic underpins the traditional English preference for a 1 1/4" shoulder plane), maybe the theory was that it helps maintain workshop standards as it'll only work as a smoother on really flat, true boards, or there's the blunt question that if one number 7 plane was good enough for Alan Peters throughout his entire career then why wouldn't it be good enough for you?

To answer your question, use whatever plane is to hand. If a number 3 is what you've got then use it, if all you have is a number 8 then use that instead. They'll all get the job done, where as if you have loads of different planes you'll never build up enough hours with any of them to really get the best out of it.

But Phil could have told you all that!

Good luck!

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

For cleaning up after the PT I would use a 4.
I have heard Custard speak before about only using a 7 at the Barnsley Workshop and I would not want to question his/their judgement as I am sure they are better craftsmen than I, but I very rarely use a long plane, I find them a bit unwieldy. I have a couple of long wooden jointers but they mostly stay in the cupboard. In the tool well of my bench I usually have a 4, a 41/2 with a very close set cap iron for troublesome pieces, a 5 with a heavy camber and a 5 with hardly any camber. I bought all my planes for peanuts (my main no 4 cost £1) and just ended up using these ones (I have others). I also have a block plane but very rarely use it at the bench, mostly for fitting things as I can use it one handed (I work on boats and often have to adjust things to fit against non square or straight surfaces).

 

[Dan j]

Most planes can be set up to do any job.
If you do a lot of hand planing its best to have a selection. If its just a one off job then use whatever works best for you.

The american terminology is pretty self explanatory.
Jointer planes for Jointing, Smoothing planes for smoothing, and a Jack of all trades plane for whatever else.

 

[Jacob]

I read some people use their No 7 jointer as a smoother. Would it be appropriate to use the jointer as a smoother for cleaning up planer ripple on the faces and edges of house door rails and stiles?.....

The whole point of a "smoother" is to take off imperfections after the thing has been flattened and thicknessed.
So it depends on how straight the stuff is to start with. If it's a bit bent then a long plane might not reach into the hollows so you'd end up taking a lot off, so smoothers are short - 4 being preferred.
5 1/2 is the joiner's standard plane which is a good compromise general purpose, if you only have one.
Barnsley workshop and no 7 story is a bit silly IMHO. Just making work for yourself.

 

[deema]

Im lucky to have most hand planes, but the two that get the most use are a No6 and a No4. Either can do smoothing cut. But for what your doing I'd leave them in the tool chest.

For a door, the surface finish that a plane produces is far too smooth for most if not all finishes your are likely to want to use. Paints and varnishes need a keyed surface to stick. My weapon of choice for a door is a drum or wide belt sander or if the door is in a finished state and its a varnish / oiled finished a Makita 9404 belt sander. A belt sander will do a good job on stiles and rails unassembked as well, but for planer ripple I'd wait until it was assembled so that you take out any imperfections with the M/T joints.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I wonder if where a No.7 was used habitually as a smoother whether a scraper was used for small localised tear out? It wouldn't then be much of a claim to fame, would it?

 

[custard]

I wonder if where a No.7 was used habitually as a smoother whether a scraper was used for small localised tear out?

Generally speaking it's bad practise to use a scraper in only one location, if there's tear out you should be bringing the entire surface down with a scraper (or high pitched plane, finely set cap iron, back bevel, sanding, etc). Localised scraping might not look too bad on raw timber, but as soon as the finish goes on you'll see a depression and it looks like carp.

 

[custard]

I am sure they are better craftsmen than I

Paddy, I've known a few craftsmen from other woodworking disciplines re-train as furniture makers. Always seemed to me that boat builders brought more inherent skill with them than any of the other trades.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I wonder if where a No.7 was used habitually as a smoother whether a scraper was used for small localised tear out?

Generally speaking it's bad practise to use a scraper in only one location, if there's tear out you should be bringing the entire surface down with a scraper (or high pitched plane, finely set cap iron, back bevel, sanding, etc). Localised scraping might not look too bad on raw timber, but as soon as the finish goes on you'll see a depression and it looks like carp.

That's what I was thinking. It must be extremely tedious taking a whole door down for one or two rough spots. it would encourage you not to have rough spots in the beginning, though.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

"at the Edward Barnsley Workshops you're only allowed one bench plane, a number 7"

Are you allowed multiple blades (e.g. with different camber)? :?

 

[pollys13]

Im lucky to have most hand planes, but the two that get the most use are a No6 and a No4. Either can do smoothing cut. But for what your doing I'd leave them in the tool chest.

For a door, the surface finish that a plane produces is far too smooth for most if not all finishes your are likely to want to use. Paints and varnishes need a keyed surface to stick. My weapon of choice for a door is a drum or wide belt sander or if the door is in a finished state and its a varnish / oiled finished a Makita 9404 belt sander. A belt sander will do a good job on stiles and rails unassembked as well, but for planer ripple I'd wait until it was assembled so that you take out any imperfections with the M/T joints.

Would this apply to a waxed exterior house door? After using a smoother to clean up any machining marks. Then to provide a necessary key, could I not use a suitable fine grit of paper on a sanding block to provide a key?
Cheers.

 

[custard]

Are you allowed multiple blades (e.g. with different camber)? :?

As many as you like, some craftsmen might have two or three, some just stick to the one. I believe Alan Peters had a load of different (thin) irons for his Bailey style plane, he'd gang sharpen them all at the start of the day then just swap them out as the job progressed, so as not to interrupt his rhythm. But by all accounts he was a really fast worker, personally I enjoy the break that a bit of sharpening provides.

If you're dimensioning rough sawn boards entirely with hand tools alone, then I could see why you might get a wooden jack plane with an aggressively cambered iron. But apprenticeships are only generally pure hand tool work for just the first six to twelve months, and anyone can last that long with a single plane and a single modestly cambered iron. If you've got a planer thicknesser I see no reason why you couldn't manage perfectly well with a single number four plane. It's just marketing brainwashing that says we need a huge arsenal of bench planes to get anything done.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

...I see no reason why you couldn't manage perfectly well with a single number four plane....

You are Paul Sellers and I claim my £5 !

.....It's just marketing brainwashing that says we need a huge arsenal of bench planes to get anything done.....

The industry is very clever in propagating (droolworthy) images like these:

https://thewoodlab.files.wordpress.com/ ... aport5.jpg

Cheers, W2S

 

[Bm101]

Im lucky to have most hand planes, but the two that get the most use are a No6 and a No4. Either can do smoothing cut. But for what your doing I'd leave them in the tool chest.

For a door, the surface finish that a plane produces is far too smooth for most if not all finishes your are likely to want to use. Paints and varnishes need a keyed surface to stick. My weapon of choice for a door is a drum or wide belt sander or if the door is in a finished state and its a varnish / oiled finished a Makita 9404 belt sander. A belt sander will do a good job on stiles and rails unassembked as well, but for planer ripple I'd wait until it was assembled so that you take out any imperfections with the M/T joints.

Would this apply to a waxed exterior house door? After using a smoother to clean up any machining marks. Then to provide a necessary key, could I not use a suitable fine grit of paper on a sanding block to provide a key?
Cheers.

This interests me, I understand paint and varnish needs a key but why oil or wax? As I understand it (in my very limited way), the key is for the paint, especially high gloss finishes and varnish to adhere to the surface albeit on a tiny scale. But why would you need a key for oil or wax? Wouldn't they work in a completely different way by penetrating the wood to some extent? Regardless of finishing waxes or oils by keying for more coats, why would the initial coat need a key even on very finely plane finished wood? Genuine question. Not being an A*se. Sorry if I'm straying a little off the path. Iv'e seen various info about raising grain with moisture and so on. But the way i had it in my head that was for a sanded finish. A highly finished planed timber shouldn't need that should it? Lets say it's a perfect world and theres no tearout or other issues. Sorry if it's a daft question.
Regards
Chris

 

[deema]

I believe the queries was for a 'house door' which I take to be an external door. There are a few woods hardwoods where an oil finish is / can be used, but most woods need some form of protection. For instance if OSMO oil is used the recommended surface should be (if memory serves) sanded down to no finer than 120 grit. For Tung or Linseed oil a planed finish isn't a problem. However, with it being an external door the weather will soon raise the grain and the beauty of a light reflective planed surface is lost.

For internal doors, that are not in direct sunlight planed, oiled and waxed looks wonderful.

 

[Steve1066]

There no problem using a no7 as smoothing plane,but you will need a very straight frame / linning for the door to fit in if you want the perfect 2p gap around the door.