A question for the Europhiles seeing as how Brexit keeps popping up in the Trump thread.
Inevitably the agenda of the EU mandarins is to create an all encompassing federal Europe, anyone who can't see that is either blind or stupid.
Citation or it didn't happen.
Also, as already pointed out to you - you are deliberately insulting. If all you have is insults - that signals a lack of relevant material and evidence.
Counter argument - "Inevitably", each of the EU Member Nations act only their own interests and "Inevitably" there would not be a 100% agreement for a full Federation program - ergo, it wouldn't happen (see later).
Your proposed argument is also completely jam packed with
Fallacious Arguments.
allowing some obscure Orwellian government in say Brussels et al having virtually total control over most aspects of our lives with the UK just a marginalised outlier in this huge 'one-nation' federal Europe or do we as a sovereign nation choose freedom to make our own decisions?
LOL. Outlandish and absurd imaginary future. I'm not sure whether you ever took on board (which wouldn't be unusual behaviour for you) that the UK, while it was still an EU Member had something called a "VETO". Ergo, if you were absolutely serious about not "
allowing some obscure Orwelian government" to have control of all UK domestic legislation, then your best and only true tactic would be to remain as a Member and to exercise your VETO.
We saw how difficult it was to extricate the UK from the EU after the Brexit vote, just think how inordinately more difficult it would be decades down the line.
I completely disagree with this absurd premise and have solid foundation to do so: Any move toward a Federation of Europe would come from debate and discussion and negotiation amongst the Member States - and the legal requirement while drafting any such (absurd and outlandish imaginary future) would be to include a get-out clause for those Member States not wishing to go for Full Federation. All it would take during these negotiations would be to apply the time alloted for those discussions to make sure the get-out clause was in your favour. Full Federation would be not be in accordance with International Law if it sought to force or strong-arm Member States into a new agreement which included Federation of Europe.
This is the reason and evidence that confirms your claim of "inevitably, blah, blah, blah..." is a false narrative that exists only in some peoples imagination. It was probably placed into people's imagination as a known lie, alongside all of the other known lies, during the Brexit debates. I will leave it open for you to confirm that is where you got this absurd imaginary future from and I will definitely stop short of calling people gullible for swallowing the lies. I hold this value quite dearly (not for an unlimited amount of time, though...):
Contempt for the Con Man; Compassion for the Conned.
The primary driver for the Brexit voting result was undoubtedly migration and that issue has still not gone away and I fear if not addressed will ultimately lead to a rise of the far right which is undesirable to say the least.
Probably. In a word, racism. In all of its guises.
I've never quite understood the open-border mindset. What kind of a screwed up mentality would actually even consider it?
Just because you don't understand something - that doesn't make it bad.
Also, aggressive and insulting.
In actual fact, the "Open Borders" which you complain about here was a very positive thing - not just for movement of People, but also for Goods and Services. Probably the biggest negative to the UK Economy due to Brexit is the loss of Open Border. For anyone in favour of Capitalism and Market Economies, an Open Border is highly desirable.
If
your beef is with immigration due to Open Border, then history shows that you are barking up the wrong tree. For
very strong reasons. First is the fact that the UK did not sign up to Schengen. UK used its VETO. UK therefore retained full control of immigration whilst still inside the EU. Perhaps this is another of your notions picked up from the Con Man Again - Compassion for the Conned. (Not for unlimited time, though).
Second is that some "immigrants" (I'm guessing exactly the ones that you are against) could be sent back to the EU, but only while the UK remained a member of the EU. This is different from deportation, etc, and was an entirely EU construct - which the UK had a strong hand in negotiating in the first place, LOL.
Third, now that we are out of EU, it is explicitly obvious that the situation with immigration has been exacerbated, on many fronts. Amongst these drawbacks is that EU workers were made to feel unwelcome in the UK. The more outward and open stance that Brexit has emboldened racists to more outwardly behave, is part and parcel of the way in which Brexit was broached by a thinly-veiled racist agenda. Those EU workers, even though in most cases were "welcome to legally remain" voted with their feet. This has had a strong negative effect on the overall UK Economy. Also exacerbated is that EU workers no longer wanted to apply for UK job vacancies that the UK workforce could not fill. Which means the UK has been forced to reach out wider afield to obtain workers to fill vacancies. Tens of thousands of job vacancies still exist that can't be filled, years after Brexit.
This has only been a round and significant negative to the UK, with zero up sides.
No doubt you will claim (without evidence) that this is all the fault of "the left", when in fact nobody on "the left" has EVER voted to make their society worse off. The clue is in the name: "the left". Brexit meant that the UK voted to place economic sanctions on the UK.
Trump love him or hate him has got that one right!
Oh, how so? From a purely racist viewpoint, you are quite correct. From pretty much all other viewpoints, you are probably not correct.
For instance, the threat of mass deportations - are you aware how much of a negative impact that would have on the US Economy?
Go on, have a guess... Or better still, do some searching.
The sad truth is that USA has voted in large part to mass deportations, because they have been
Conned into believing (not difficult in the case of the Deep South and Confederate followers...) that the cost of living crisis has been brought about solely by the influx of "undocumented migrants". Nothing could be further from the truth, if we are to use
facts and
evidence to substantiate our views. Instead of accepting a lie (because you are predisposed to find that lie appealling) from an egotist standing at a lectern backed up by another egotist controlling the social media narrative, backed up by another egotist foreign antagonist leader...
He wants to put America first...what exactly is wrong with that?
No he doesn't. That is a
Con. He wants to put himself first above all else, then he wants to put his friends and allies above the rest, and he cares not one jot about the common US Citizen.
Of course the EU would make an example out of the people of the UK to punish them for voting to leave the EU, that was inevitable and the UK's Brexit negotiators failed miserably to achieve a decent trading agreements but now is the time to address those failures.
You misunderstand and appear to believe a lie about deliberate harm. That was not an agenda item. There is not really an ability to "negotiate" with EU to get better terms than are prescribed in the Articles which outline the method of extricating a State from EU membership. The UK is
just another Third State. Nothing more, nothing less. The UK did not hold any cards, unlike the
Con that was perpetrated by the very people who brought you the Brexit
Con.
Recently I was shot down by the pro-EU zealots for pointing out that the UK could actually force the hand of the EU and sue for better trading deals due the unstable nature of the German economy and especially their flagship car industry and low and behold what has been happening? It's in deep whotsit!
The EU is slowly coming apart at the seams and irrespective of what the EU trolls keep regurgitating, the UK is ultimately better off long term out of the EU than as a member. Why would you tie your colours to the mast of a sinking ship?
Again, I don't know where you are getting this
Con from, but the UK certainly
still has no cards with which to negotiate with the EU on any market segment. The UK is a Third Country now.
PS - here is an example study that illustrates in detail the negative impact to the US Economy from any mass deportations of undocumented migrants. All of this negative impact would, of course, be passed on solely to the Common US Citizen, making their cost of living worse, not better.
Significant damage to US Economy
