Will be interesting to see what comes out of the current Chinese talks. China have been pushing for Hamas to formally recognise Israel's right to exist, and to renounce violence. If they could accomplish that it would be pretty significant, not least in enhancing China's position on the diplomatic front, something sure to upset America.
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It has hardly been a one way process. Think West bank incursions, detention of thousands without trial.......
Isreal frequently feels the need to over react, recently because of pressure from the right wing. This results in the deaths of many innocent civilians and this perpetuates the cycle.....again & again....
No fan of NATO either. Wether his posturing about that is serious, or just intended to get other members to actually honour their obligations remains to be seen, but if I were in Zelenski's shoes I would be worried.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
I seriously hope Trump loses. We don't have room in our house for all my American brothers in law and their families.
Sachakins
The most wasted of days is one without woodwork
She has not been chosen yet, its only that Biden put his support/nomination to her and the £50 million in campaign funds too.
The Democrat choice will be finalised at their Democratic National Conference.
The expectation that she will be candidate is purely on the premise that as Biden backs her for nominee, then all those that backed Biden for nominee will ack Harris.
Bit of a long armed assumption IMO.
Rhossydd
Established Member
I didn't suggest it was. Just pointing out that suggesting the Ukraine war and Gaza have similar causes is fundamentally wrong.
artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
In your own words "Perish the thought that it should be about policies rather than personalities."
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
I don't agree.
The stated intent of Hamas is the destruction of the State of Israel - a threat against which Israel have every right to to defend itself.
Russian reason for invading Ukraine - demilitarise and denazify+ liberation of Donetsk. Whether Russian claims are justified is debatable - but Ukraine posed no threat to the existence of Russia.
Comparing Ukraine to Gaza is a nonsense - Gaza 360 sq km and 2m population, 603,000 sq km and a population of 38m.
This is not to excuse what is happening in Gaza - wars are fundamentally unpleasant.
WW2 saw 40m civilian deaths - many from allied bombing and shelling, etc of civilian areas. Most regarded this as a price worth paying to defeat evil - although some regard the bombing of (for instance) Cologne, Dresden etc as indiscriminate without regard for casualties.
Rhossydd
Established Member
No debate, countries can't just "demilitarise" their neighbours because they want to when they're not in actual conflict.
Stuart you’ve posted this in the wrong thread…I reckon Harrison Ford should stand, as he has previously 'played' POTUS!
After all, look back at Ronny Reagan, that was his best roll when he 'played' POTUS! The special effects were pretty good too, look at how realistic the assassination attempt appeared!
We can’t be having jokes in politics threads.
Maybe: Media attacks Biden for not dropping out a year earlier. One things has been clear for at least that lonmg: that there is NO chance that either Biden or Trump would still be sufficiently 'compos mentis' to function as President come mid-January 2029
You should listen harder . . . I heard hundreds of them. Starmer's silence was deafening.
Let me make this prediction: the next POTUS will either Trump, or Michell Obama – if they can persuade her to overcome her deep reluctance, and accept that it's her DUTY to stand: the only person who can beat Trump
Ed Weber
Established Member
You're 100% correct IMO
The problem is, that won't fit on a bumper sticker or T-shirt
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martin45
Established Member
Ed Weber said:
Yes, it's such an easy position to be in when you only look at one side.
Being a head of state is not as simple as your posts would suggest. Knee-jerk reaction are rarely the answer.
And yet Biden kept doing just that, repeatedly!
More weapons, more bombs, more rockets, more howitzer shells (diverted from Ukraine apparently), more money for bombs, diplomatic cover for the slaughter and guess what happened?
40,000+ people slaughtered, the majority of them women and children and Biden calls that Israel defending itself!
Yes, it's such an easy position to be in when you only look at one side.
Being a head of state is not as simple as your posts would suggest. Knee-jerk reaction are rarely the answer.
And yet Biden kept doing just that, repeatedly!
More weapons, more bombs, more rockets, more howitzer shells (diverted from Ukraine apparently), more money for bombs, diplomatic cover for the slaughter and guess what happened?
40,000+ people slaughtered, the majority of them women and children and Biden calls that Israel defending itself!
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mondo
Established Member
In defense of Joe Biden I think he had a tough job. He has to make consequential decisions in an uncertain world the results of which may not be known for decades. I don't necessarily agree with everything he's done but I believe he's trying to do what's best for the country. He can't help getting old, nor can any of us, but I think he's done an admirable job considering the hand he was dealt.
Indeed, it does - but in advance of the 7th October, we should reflect on the treatment of Palestinians in Gaza for decades. Gaza has the right to defend itself from the forces that illegally control it, effectively making their people prisoners ensnared in poverty.
martin45
Established Member
Terry – Somerset said:
The Gaza apologists perhaps ought to reflect on the brutality of Hamas on 7th October.
And ignore the brutality of the Israeli state? 40,000 + dead. The majority of them women and children
Israel has every right to defend itself.
But their not defending themselves. Their slaughtering the civilian population on a massive scale.
The US and Europe are right in supporting a democracy rather than the terrorist, dictatorship and unstable which "govern" many parts of the Middle East,
Which category does Egypt, Bahrain or Saudi Arabia fit in? They are fully supported by the US and Europe. Apparently murdering and chopping up a journalist in its embassy does not upset Biden too much.
Try expressing an objection to the slaughter in Gaza in that supposed bastion of democracy, Israel , and see what happens. A quick google should help if your unaware.
the Israeli response appears "disproportionate" in the context of the impacts on the civilian population (see next bullet)
Somewhat of an understatement!
Hamas have lost the battle, yet will not surrender. Hamas, who operate embedded in the civilian infrastructure must take some responsibility for impact on civilian population
The bombs (mainly supplied by Biden) are being dropped by Israel.
The excuse “He made me do it “ is for children in a school yard.
Genocide is a damning accusation - according to the UN definition:
To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
That's why the International Court of Justice has decided not to dismiss the case brought by South Africa against Israel alleging genocide.
Israel will claim (with some justification) that their goal is the defeat of Hamas, a terrorist group who started the current conflict. That civilians were caught in the cross-fire, given Hamas tactics was inevitable.
Dropping one ton bomb’s on a tented village’s is not “crossfire”. Demolishing a 10 storey apartment building with missiles is not “crossfire”. Starving a civilian population to death is not “crossfire”. Chasing humanitarian workers across Gaza with missiles until all are dead is not “crossfire”.
The Gaza apologists perhaps ought to reflect on the brutality of Hamas on 7th October.
And ignore the brutality of the Israeli state? 40,000 + dead. The majority of them women and children
Israel has every right to defend itself.
But their not defending themselves. Their slaughtering the civilian population on a massive scale.
The US and Europe are right in supporting a democracy rather than the terrorist, dictatorship and unstable which "govern" many parts of the Middle East,
Which category does Egypt, Bahrain or Saudi Arabia fit in? They are fully supported by the US and Europe. Apparently murdering and chopping up a journalist in its embassy does not upset Biden too much.
Try expressing an objection to the slaughter in Gaza in that supposed bastion of democracy, Israel , and see what happens. A quick google should help if your unaware.
the Israeli response appears "disproportionate" in the context of the impacts on the civilian population (see next bullet)
Somewhat of an understatement!
Hamas have lost the battle, yet will not surrender. Hamas, who operate embedded in the civilian infrastructure must take some responsibility for impact on civilian population
The bombs (mainly supplied by Biden) are being dropped by Israel.
The excuse “He made me do it “ is for children in a school yard.
Genocide is a damning accusation - according to the UN definition:
To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.
That's why the International Court of Justice has decided not to dismiss the case brought by South Africa against Israel alleging genocide.
Israel will claim (with some justification) that their goal is the defeat of Hamas, a terrorist group who started the current conflict. That civilians were caught in the cross-fire, given Hamas tactics was inevitable.
Dropping one ton bomb’s on a tented village’s is not “crossfire”. Demolishing a 10 storey apartment building with missiles is not “crossfire”. Starving a civilian population to death is not “crossfire”. Chasing humanitarian workers across Gaza with missiles until all are dead is not “crossfire”.
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But do they really. The region of Palestine was always a mixed region, with Christian, Muslim and Jewish owning land there.
Over the centuries that became whittled down to Jewish and Muslim, and while there were small numbers of Jews and Christians, the predominant people were Muslim.
They have been supplanted by Jewish people farmed in from all over the world, who have no forebears from that region.
The American Amish are mostly in Pennsylvania. So does that mean that the state belongs to the Amish ? Or Scientology formed in Los Angeles, so does that mean Los Angeles belongs to the Scientologists.
Keep in mind these are religions, and only formed in some areas, but because thats where they formed, does that mean they have an automatic right to that land. Certainly it wasnt 'Gifted By God' because the God of today is not the god, or gods people have worshiped over the millennia.
No religion has claim, all religions have claim, perhaps only in a spiritual sense, but there it ends. They have no right to take the entire region for themselves and expelling or killing those living there so they can settle members of their own religion.
Anyway, this is a bit serious, so lets stop this here and i'll pop in a bit of humour, with a religious overtone
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martin45
Established Member
Terry – Somerset said:
Comparing Ukraine to Gaza is a nonsense - Gaza 360 sq km and 2m population, 603,000 sq km and a population of 38m.
Death rate in Gaza is an average of 250 people per day. In Ukraine it is 44 per day.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-rele...r-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam
But according to Biden its the Russians who are committing genocide!!!!
Comparing Ukraine to Gaza is a nonsense - Gaza 360 sq km and 2m population, 603,000 sq km and a population of 38m.
Death rate in Gaza is an average of 250 people per day. In Ukraine it is 44 per day.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-rele...r-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam
But according to Biden its the Russians who are committing genocide!!!!
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