Upgrade workshop extraction. Any advice?

[Grantx]

What would be a suitable extraction setup for the following:

Axminster Professional AP1854B Bandsaw - 230V
Trend Yeti CNC Precision Pro SmartBench
Standard Bench top router

I need to install:

• 100mm steel ducting tubes running to each machine,
• Chip separation (cyclone?)
• Filtration (HEPA filters)
• Strong enough extraction unit.

The extraction I currently have is the Axminster Professional AP60E Dust Extractor - 230V connected to the bandsaw but I dont like the top bag and I dont know if the motor is powerful enough to extract from all machines simultaneously.

Any recommendations?
Many thanks.

 

[Jameshow]

Neither are particularly big chip makers, so a cyclone isn't really needed.

Why not use blast gates unless you have two operatives working simultaneously???

Perhaps a general air filtration unit too?

 

[Grantx]

Neither are particularly big chip makers, so a cyclone isn't really needed.

Why not use blast gates unless you have two operatives working simultaneously???

Perhaps a general air filtration unit too?

Definitely will be installing blast gates. Good suggestion.
Axminster have this air filter:
https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-professional-ap25afs-air-filter-230v-107709
Is it any good or would you recommend a different brand?

 

[Inspector]

I recommend you read Bill Pentz's site end to end. It is a hard slog but the information on how big a DC and the ducting needs to be is in it.
In short your existing DC is too small. Same goes for the ducting. Room air cleaners filter the dust while you are breathing it too. If you use one you should be wearing a good mask while in the shop. Reasons why are in the link above.

Pete

 

[Sideways]

The quietest shop vac style extractor you can afford. Get rid of the big bag chip collector. Poor choice for your needs. Don't waste money putting in ducts and blast gates but a nice long 35mm or bigger bore vac hose can be useful. Look at Peter Parfitt's manifold for his Festool CT extractor (youtube).

Bandsaw is the least of your problems but look at past threads on here about the best way to do extraction and bandsaws. They are generically lousy, but also not a big dust source. Moderator Mike has made good posts on this. Focus high suction as close to the exit of the cut as possible. Top and bottom boxes can be ignored and hoovered weekly.

Few routers have good extraction and then only the better ones so an air cleaner like above will always help. Don't put your router in a sealed box under a table with a dust port. That's a stupid idea promoted by youtube idiots who haven't a braincell between them and snakeoil accessory makers who just want your money.

 

[Jameshow]

Definitely will be installing blast gates. Good suggestion.
Axminster have this air filter:
https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-professional-ap25afs-air-filter-230v-107709
Is it any good or would you recommend a different brand?

It's the same as the record one I suspect which a few guys have... @robgul ???

 

[MikeK]

Don't put your router in a sealed box under a table with a dust port. That's a stupid idea promoted by youtube idiots who haven't a braincell between them and snakeoil accessory makers who just want your money.

The box is not sealed if it provides airflow. My experience with my router table is contrary to your advice, but you are certainly entitled to you opinion. After well over two hundred hours of operation on hardwood, plywood, MDF, and Valchromat, the inside of my AUKTools router is clean.

 

[Sideways]

The box is not sealed if it provides airflow.

I thought your box had an air inlet in line with the router's air intake.
I have no issue with those. If not, then we will respectfully disagree with each other

 

[mikej460]

Some YouTube videos I found useful:

 

[MikeK]

I thought your box had an air inlet in line with the router's air intake.
I have no issue with those. If not, then we will respectfully disagree with each other

The connection to the DC system is in the bottom of the box and the inlet is in line with the router motor spindle. The fence is also connected to the DC through a smaller hose on the end. When I first started using it, I was overly cautious about any dust or chips being sucked into the motor, but my concerns were unfounded.

Here is a photo of the motor top after about 45 minutes of use this afternoon rounding over the edges on 20 MDF drawer face panels for a friend. It looked like this a month ago and is the only tool in my shop I don't bother to clean. The next time I take out the motor for an inspection will be when it's time to change the brushes...whenever that will be.

Here is a photo of the inside of the box. I can't remember the last time I opened it, but you can see the outlet in the bottom. The accumulated dust that is visible is from all of the use since new. I think the dust box is doing a great job.

 

[Sideways]

One day i'll have to build one of those just to do a smoke test and figure out how the air gets into the box to make up for everything being sucked out the bottom hole and blown out the top one !
Until I figure that out I can't agree with you but I do appreciate the pictures and that somehow it's working well for you.
Cheers !

? When there is no stock on the table, is the suction from your dust extract powerful enough to overpower the "downdraught" through the router motor that clears the chips ?
So with no cutter fitted and the router running with nothing on the table, air is drawn down into the box though the hole where the magnalok plates fit ?

 

[MikeK]

One day i'll have to build one of those just to do a smoke test and figure out how the air gets into the box to make up for everything being sucked out the bottom hole and blown out the top one !
Until I figure that out I can't agree with you but I do appreciate the pictures and that somehow it's working well for you.
Cheers !

It could be some wizardry. I don't know how it does the extraction so well, but I am grateful that it works because my shop cleanup is so easy now.

 

[Rozza]

It could be some wizardry. I don't know how it does the extraction so well, but I am grateful that it works because my shop cleanup is so easy now.

I have the same Incra router lift and their extract box as @MikeK, hooked up to a dedicated Camvac under the table. It’s also connected to a fence extract (sometimes). Router is an AUK

I can +1 for what @MikeK has said, the setup works brilliantly. Absolutely no fine dust on the workpiece or table top after use. So, @Sideways there is no snake oil being used. My experience is that extract boxes work.

Back to the OPs question, a good HPLV vac is the way to go. Local extract at the cutting face if you haven’t got an extract box. I use dedicated Camvac for my router, they have a great range. And Festool ctl midi for everything else. I can recommend both for really good dust control.

 

[gcusick]

I have one of the 2-motor Camvac extractors connected to a (63mm) duct system with blast gates. Very happy with it, more so since I added the silencer box shown in the Hooked on Wood video linked above.

 

[Grantx]

Some YouTube videos I found useful:

That 10micron and below is my real concern. Is the roof mounted air filter an efficient way to clean the air? Would a better idea be to install an extractor to the wall which blows dust outside?
At the moment (at my home workshop) I have a powerful floor standing fan which faces the door. I simply use the air compressor to kick up as much dust as possible and the fan empties the room in minutes. It is very efficient. However, here at work, I dont really have that option hence why Im looking at that ceiling mounted air cleaner. Im just not sure if I could be doing better than a £400 piece of equipment. Its not about the money, its about the efficiency.

 

[Rozza]

That 10micron and below is my real concern. Is the roof mounted air filter an efficient way to clean the air?

First rule of H&S is avoid the hazard. If you can’t then mitigate the hazard as much as possible. For me, that is to deal with dust at source, not disperse it into a room-full of air. Room extract filters are there to deal with that which bypasses your primary extract, ie very much a secondary system.

 

[giantbeat]

I have one of the 2-motor Camvac extractors connected to a (63mm) duct system with blast gates. Very happy with it, more so since I added the silencer box shown in the Hooked on Wood video linked above.

the more i look at my setups, what machines i use the more this setup makes perfect sense.

 

[Rozza]

I have one of the 2-motor Camvac extractors connected to a (63mm) duct system with blast gates. Very happy with it, more so since I added the silencer box shown in the Hooked on Wood video linked above.

I have similar Camvac with the extract vent hoses going straight through to the outside through holes in the wall

Never thought about the soundbox. Looks like a great retrofit project for a wet Sunday!

 

[gcusick]

The connection to the DC system is in the bottom of the box and the inlet is in line with the router motor spindle. The fence is also connected to the DC through a smaller hose on the end. When I first started using it, I was overly cautious about any dust or chips being sucked into the motor, but my concerns were unfounded.

Mike,
Can I ask a bit more about the air inlet. Is that a separate vent from the side of the box, in line with the spindle, or just the leak through the top plate? TIA
Geoff

 

[MikeK]

Mike,
Can I ask a bit more about the air inlet. Is that a separate vent from the side of the box, in line with the spindle, or just the leak through the top plate? TIA
Geoff

Geoff,

I have the Incra system, which includes the Mast-R-Lift II, CleanSweep ported inserts, CleanSweep box, and the LS positioner with the Super Fence. The Super Fence has its own dust collection port that I connected to the main duct.

This is a photo of the router plate with one of the CleanSweep inserts installed. The set comes with seven inserts with different sized center holes for the cutters.

This is a photo of the router table as I was building it before I attached the drawer faces and door. Disregard the experiment in the top drawer. Using a brad nailer was much faster for these small drawers than the pocket holes . The CleanSweep box is attached to the bottom of the router table and completely encloses the router and lift. The sliding door can be removed for access to the router, or opened slightly for more airflow. I keep it closed and have not noticed any dust or chip residue in the box. The 100mm flexible hose attaches to the bottom of the CleanSweep box and makes the forbidden 90-degree bend to exit the side of the router table.

This is a photo of the side showing the router table with the 2.5-inch flexible hose connected to the Super Fence. The small port in the upper right corner of the side just below the table is a dummy port to store the Super Fence hose when it is not needed.