Trying to make a little sense of the LN saw range..

[frankederveen]

Hi guys,

This morning I was trying to make a little sense of the LN saw range on their website and thought this overview might also be useful to someone else. Unfortunately phpBB doesn't let me enter a normal HTML table so the formatting is a bit odd.

Yes, I know they are a little expensive and that there are perfectly good old saws out there but there is no denying that these are quality saws and some people may have less time than money

cut taper ppi set thick length height(toe,heel)    name           link
cross y   8   .005 .032  20    2,5       panel saw crosscut 8ppi  http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=s-ps
cross y   12  .005 .032  20    2,5       panel saw crosscut 12ppi http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=s-ps
cross n   13  .004 .032  14    3-5/8     14-inch tenon saw cross  http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=TS
cross n   13  .004 .032  12    3         12-inch tenon saw cross  http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=TS
cross y   14  .003 .015  14    2,2-1/4   tapered crosscut saw     http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=1-SAW-Tapered
cross n   14  .003 .020  11    2-1/4     carcass saw              http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=CS
cross n   16  .003 .020  10    1-5/8     small crosscut saw       http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=smCC
rip   y   7   .005 .032  20    2,5       panel saw rip cut 7ppi   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=s-ps
rip   n   10  .003 .020  11    2-1/4     coarse rip carcass saw   http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=crc12ppi
rip   n   10  .004 .032  14    3-5/8     14-inch tenon saw rip    http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=TS
rip   n   10  .004 .032  12    3         12-inch tenon saw rip    http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=TS
rip   y   11  .004 .020  16  3-3/4,4-1/8 tapered tenon saw        http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=1-SAW-Tapered
rip   n   11  .004 .020  16    4-1/8     16-inch tenon saw rip    http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=TS
rip   y   15  .003 .015  10  1-3/8,1-5/8 tapered dovetail saw     http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=1-SAW-Tapered
rip   n   15  .003 .015  10    1-5/8     thin plate dovetail saw  http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=DS
rip   n   15  .003 .020  10    1-5/8     dovetail saw             http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=DS
rip   n   15  .003 .020  11    2-1/4     rip carcass saw 15ppi    http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=RC
rip   n  16-9 .003 .020  10    1-5/8     progressive pitch dovetail http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=DS

Regards,
Frank

 

[G S Haydon]

Hi Frank,

Lovely saws! What kind of work do you want to do with them? We could probably then advise n what would suit you best.

 

[frankederveen]

Do work with saws? You've lost me there

The terminology can be a bit difficult for non-native speakers, carcass and tenon saws for example. All I see is saws of different sizes, cross/rip and ppi filed. I can only assume that the filing may be different. Would carcass saws be filed different from a tenon saw? I mean fleam/rake and slope. Would one be better for softer or harder woods? I have fallen in love with walnut recently, it is lovely to work and looks great.

I have a couple of saws and when I'm working on something there are moments when I think 'if only I had a ... saw'. At the moment I'm mostly looking at a very fine crosscut saw. Could be a japanese style as they are quite nice, but then again... I've got the thin plated dovetail saw and absolutely love it! The the small crosscut saw which has the same size as the dovetail saw looks quite interesting.

There isn't a lot of space where I live so for me it is hand tools only, even resawing thick stock and "thicknessing" the boards; Woodwork is more a sport than a hobby for me I guess.

It would be nice if PAR wood would be easily available in sizes other than 3/4", which is too thick for most of my needs.

Regards,
Frank

 

[Paul Chapman]

Some useful information on choosing saws on Mike Wenzloff's site http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/faq/31-g ... ction.html

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Tenon saw - a saw for cutting the cheeks of tenons. That's cutting along the grain (ripping), so a tenon saw is filed rip cut. The different sizes suit different types of work. Large saws are more suited to joinery, small ones (sometimes called 'sash saws' because they were intended for the small tenons in sash windows) for cabinet and smaller joinery work.

Dovetail saw - a small saw for cutting dovetails, in thin stock such as drawer stuff, or for small boxes. Again, that's a ripping cut, so usually filed rip.

Carcase saw - a larger version of a dovetail saw used to cut dovetails in larger stock such as carcase sides. Filed rip, with coarser teeth than a dovetail saw. Also useful for separating the lids from boxes after glueing-up.

Both the tenon saws and dovetail saws can be filed with cross-cut teeth to give a better finish when cutting across the grain. You can cut with the grain using a saw filed crosscut if needs be, but it'll be much slower than a proper rip filed saw.

The panel saws are smaller versions of a full size handsaw, the smaller size being for convenience of storage more than anything else. The fine-toothed 12 ppi saw will give a better finish than the usual full-size crosscut, though will obviously cut slower.

By the sounds of it, most of your work is of small scale, so a good kit might be a 12ppi panel saw, a small tenon saw (say 12" 11ppi), a 12" crosscut backsaw, and a fine rip-cut dovetail saw. A fine crosscut-filed dovetail-size saw would be a useful addition if you do lots of small-scale work like box-making with linings and interior trays. I'd also suggest (if you've got the bench and vice to cope with it) a 26" handsaw of about 4ppi rip cut for resawing boards to the sort of thicknesses that box-makers use - that'll mean you can buy 1" and thicker sawn hardwoods and make full use of it. The 7ppi LN saw would make rather slow progress through, say, a 6" wide board.

Roughly speaking; big work, big saws; small work, small saws. The LN range covers both.

I'm not sure about the 'tapered' backsaws. Some people say they balance a bit better; I've used both tapered and non-tapered, and I can't tell much difference. What really makes a difference is keeping the saw sharp.

 

[frankederveen]

Thanks both, that is really useful information. Those Wenzloff&Sons saws look very nice, I wonder if he ships to the UK..

By the sounds of it, most of your work is of small scale, so a good kit might be a 12ppi panel saw, a small tenon saw (say 12" 11ppi), a 12" crosscut backsaw, and a fine rip-cut dovetail saw. A fine crosscut-filed dovetail-size saw would be a useful addition if you do lots of small-scale work like box-making with linings and interior trays.

You are right, it is mostly smaller scale so far, hence my search for a small crosscut saw. There may be a "need" for more saws in the future though. I just build up my tool set slowly, as and when I stumble on the next problem.

I'd also suggest (if you've got the bench and vice to cope with it) a 26" handsaw of about 4ppi rip cut for resawing boards to the sort of thicknesses that box-makers use - that'll mean you can buy 1" and thicker sawn hardwoods and make full use of it. The 7ppi LN saw would make rather slow progress through, say, a 6" wide board.

I was thinking about maybe making a bow/veneer saw with a bandsaw blade for resawing. I have a 20" 7ppi rip but found that a thinner and/or lower blade would probably work better. There are some designs out on the web which look quite easy to make. The blade will still have to be fairly sturdy though.

I'm not sure about the 'tapered' backsaws. Some people say they balance a bit better; I've used both tapered and non-tapered, and I can't tell much difference. What really makes a difference is keeping the saw sharp.

With a tapered backsaw you just get less saw for your money I usually just tip the saw's toe up a little when sawing dovetails for example.

That brings us neatly to sharpening and flattening! A little while ago I got an old Disston on ebay; the blade has some dings in it (flattening?) but fixing those is waaay out my my league; it would probably involve re-tensioning etc.. I also had a go at sharpening it which was actually a lot easier than I thought, at least it cuts a lot better now so I can't have messed it up completely.

Thanks,
Frank

 

[Paul Chapman]

Those Wenzloff&Sons saws look very nice, I wonder if he ships to the UK..

Yes, he does - I have three of his saws.

If you are thinking of ordering one, it would be best to check on his current delivery times. There is just Mike and two of his sons who make all the saws and there is always a heavy demand for them. This has sometimes resulted in large backlogs. But his saws are very good

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[G S Haydon]

Frank,

This video is good fun for a newbie, gives a nice overview of saws and what they are for. It even touched on the shape of the teeth for both rip and cross-cuts http://video.pbs.org/video/1772025726/ .

If you want a UK option on saws take a look at the range here http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... Range.html .

 

[Jelly]

WRT rip saws i'd advise getting the coarsest tooth filing and longest plate you can, I favour a 24" 2.5tpi tyzak and a 34" 1.5 tpi disston. They're much more effective for ripping thick stock and will also resaw wide boards into thin stock at an acceptable speed.

If you spend a lot of time ripping thin stock to width then a smaller tooth filing might be better as it applies less force reducing the risk of destructive splintering on the back of the workpiece, but there's a limitation on the thickness a finer saw will effectively cut due to the gullets clogging before the cut is complete.