trend or powercap or what?

[duncanh]

Bill - my local Screwfix didn't have any problem with me trying out the Powercap in the shop. I found it more comfortable than the Airshield and have been happily using it since earlier this year.

Even with my regularly cleaned Microclene ambient filter and Camvac extractor running the filters on the powercap show signs of dust, so they're obviously doing their job.
I've experimented with putting a sheet kitchen roll over the filters (held in place with a rubber band) to act as a pre-filter and save on expensive replacement filters. This works but when the batteries are low the unit obviously struggles to pull enough air through. Talking of batteries - I bought an empty case from Toolpost that I filled with recharables - there's nothing worse than getting half way through the day and running out!

I find the fan noise a little intrusive so now I always turn whilst listening to music or the radio on in-ear headphones hidden under ear defenders.

I haven't found a problem with the skirt being too loose, but maybe I'm just lucky with the shape of my head! Should it really matter much with a positive air pressure system like this.

 

[CHJ]

........I haven't found a problem with the skirt being too loose, but maybe I'm just lucky with the shape of my head! Should it really matter much with a positive air pressure system like this.

I suspect this is one of the main factors for the Powercap only being rated TH 1 P. It only aims at keeping the inhaled ambient dust levels down to 10% due to inward leakage mix.
You need to be vigilant when batteries are near exhaustion, "just finishing a job" could put you in a position of only having impact protection and no effective filtering.

TH 2 P, aims to achieve a level of 2% and invariably needs battery/airflow state monitoring along with better seals to achieve this.

 

[Paul.J]

How come the Powercap is still legal to use/sell,whereas the Trend Mk1 isn't. :?:
Also the Trend Mk2 is to filter out the finer MDF dust,so if you don't use MDF won't the Mk1 still be Ok :?

 

[TEP]

C'mon Paul, what do you mean by bringing 'common sense' into this thread. It's probably all to do with EU regs. and so on. Of course their attitude is to hope that all us peasants will not notice the c**p they come out with most of the time.

It's the old mushroom syndrome, keep them all in the dark, feed them s**t and they'll be happy.

 

[CHJ]

How come the Powercap is still legal to use/sell,whereas the Trend Mk1 isn't. :?:
Also the Trend Mk2 is to filter out the finer MDF dust,so if you don't use MDF won't the Mk1 still be Ok :?

The Trend Mk 1 filters rely on static attraction to function, it allows greater airflow because of reduced restriction, this can be compromised if the Filters/Mask are/is stored or used in a high humidity or damp environment and is the reason they are not allowed under new EU regulations.

As far as I can determine the Powercap filters use dense particle filter material to achieve the same level regardless of static charge, hence why they have a splash rating. But I noted that it is only the filter cartrige that carries the rating label, I could find no reference to the mask itself.

 

[tnimble]

How come the Powercap is still legal to use/sell,whereas the Trend Mk1 isn't. :?:
Also the Trend Mk2 is to filter out the finer MDF dust,so if you don't use MDF won't the Mk1 still be Ok :?

Carefully reading ALL information about the 'new' EU regulation the Trend Mk1 productwise may be sold and meets all regulations. Its only neccesarry to note in the instructions/somewhere that the mask may not be used above a certain humidity level.

 

[CHJ]

.......Also the Trend Mk2 is to filter out the finer MDF dust,so if you don't use MDF won't the Mk1 still be Ok :?

Not the whole story, the percentage of ambient dust, regardless of particle size, that can get drawn into the face shield area and still meet TH 1 P is 5 times greater than for TH 2 P

 

[beejay]

Bill - my local Screwfix didn't have any problem with me trying out the Powercap in the shop. I found it more comfortable than the Airshield and have been happily using it since earlier this year.

Thanks Duncan,
I'll try to get in this week sometime.
Regards, Bill

 

[CHJ]

Carefully reading ALL information about the 'new' EU regulation the Trend Mk1 productwise may be sold and meets all regulations. Its only neccesarry to note in the instructions/somewhere that the mask may not be used above a certain humidity level.

Laura, The requirement to store Spare Filters and Mask when not in use in a suitably dry environment appears in the instructions for use of the MK1 and filter packaging, at least it was in the last batch I purchased.

In all fairness to Trend, regardless of what I/We/You may think of their marketing methods I don't think they would wish to be party to any litigation following misuse of the old mask, as it was sold with a COSHH compliance rating/certification sheet I don't see how that could be signed off in any work environment by management who would have to guarantee that the masks were kept and used dry at all times to meet the new EU regulations.

 

[tnimble]

In all fairness to Trend, regardless of what I/We/You may think of their marketing methods I don't think they would wish to be party to any litigation following misuse of the old mask, as it was sold with a COSHH compliance rating/certification sheet I don't see how that could be signed off in any work environment by management who would have to guarantee that the masks were kept and used dry at all times to meet the new EU regulations.

Can't say anyting about that, since the legislation only states the filtration rates required. If the design of the filter material used by trend meets this at say a humidity of up to 93% without a too severe drop in filtration performance it could easily comply in most cases, if it was say upto 71% it would be hard to guarantee safe usage in quite some circumstances.

So far Trend has failed to respond other than "due to new legislation we had to drop that perpendicular product and had to develop a new" "theres a ban on static filters". The first may be true but then they have waited years to do so long after the legislation and even longer after the debate, the latter is untrue.

Not to beat Trend down or so, they do make some good products, of good quality and to a good price.

 

[Paul.J]

Getting too technical for me, doesn't take much :?
I just hope that Trend or someone else,does get it right with the Airshield some day, as it is a good useful piece of kit to have against the problem with fine dust.

 

[CHJ]

The (Mark 1) Trend Airshields filters are stated as:

EN146 Class THP2. tested against Sodium Cloride aerosol 0.02 to 2 micron with mass median particle size of 0.6 micron.
For use against solid and water based aerosols only.

Evironmental range of unit: 0-90% humidity both in use and storage.

I am with you on the general quality of Trend branded products Laura.

 

[tnimble]

I just hope that Trend or someone else,does get it right with the Airshield some day, as it is a good useful piece of kit to have against the problem with fine dust.

Can't agree more.

@CHJ
Is the data for the EN146 Class THP2comformance of the filter at 60% and that drops when humidity rises upto the point of 90% where the filtration is about nothing, or is the comformance just met at the stated maximum of 90%? The later should be how a filter should be speced IMO. And if that is true the MK1 is perfectly usable (gurenteed) under most conditions. With every (safety) product there will aways be extreme circumstances in which the product should no be used. IF you don't allow for unusability extreme circumstance even a hazmat type 1a (that's the fully sealed type with internal bottled air supply) suit would be even unacceptable for woodworking.

 

[CHJ]

........Is the data for the EN146 Class THP2comformance of the filter at 60% and that drops when humidity rises upto the point of 90% where the filtration is about nothing, or is the comformance just met at the stated maximum of 90%? .........

Can't pin that down, guess it would be in the EN146 test procedures.

It is the whole assembly that is quoted as suitable up to 90%

I understood that somewhere down the line someone decided that Static Filters could not be trusted to meet the spec. although they had been approved for some considerable time and indeed were granted approval in the Trend mask.

All water under the bridge now anyway, I'm happy with mine until such time as I can't get any more filters or find a lighter weight model that betters it but does not cost a small fortune.

 

[tnimble]

Pther brands are indeed more pricy (around 220 for 3M and 260 for CleanAir) and the Triton seems not to be avaiable on this side of the globe (altough that one seems not be to very comfortable either).

 

[CHJ]

I think the original Triton was withdrawn from sale here because it failed to meet EU or UK regulations for 8hr (all day) use in some way.

It must still have a problem as I can't see Triton passing up the chance to certify and import with their brand loyalty base here.

 

[Bart Leetch]

Bill i have to agree with you about the Airshield.
I too finally got to try it on today,tried all roads to get it comfy without it falling forwards but just couldn't get it to fit comfy enough.
I do like the new skirt underneath and the overall design but it is just too heavy
Also felt there was not so much room behind the visor as the old version.
Whether it would be something that you would get used to after a while i'm not sure.The old one did feel more comfy when i first put it on.
The chap from Trend said it was designed by the designers who design the fighter pilot helmets.
I think they ought to get back to the drawing board/computer and come up with the Mk 3.
I won't be buying one

Hello form across the pond this is my first post here.

They must make fighter pilot helmets different than we do. I used to work with a parachute rigger in the USN & we had molds which we lined with leather the top of the mold had a big hole in it. We put the mold on the pilots head & poured an expanding foam in the top through the hole & it expanded to fit his or her head exactly & made for a comfortable fit . This was then popped out of the mold & trimmed & press fit into the helmet.

Bart
I am sure there are mostly cost reasons for not making the air helmet this wy.

 

[dannykaye]

has anyone tried non power systems like the 3M 6700 ?

 

[Paul.J]

Welcome Bart.
You've gone a long way back to find that post :shock:
I have since bought the Airshield Pro and after a while in use do find it more comfortable to use,and it does keep the finer dust out,which the Mk1 wasn't doing.
Not sure about fitting as you suggest for the AS as i do alter mine strangley enough.
Might be a good idea though to have like a memory foam band fitted to it :?:

 

[CHJ]

to the UKW forum Bart, glad you made it over here.

Hope to see your take on spinny bits appearing soon, it's good to get a differing perspective on the creation of shavings especially in woods not normally available to us.