Trainee Carpenter stuck on a project.

[Carl Dancer]

Hi everyone.
I have just started a level one diploma in carpentry and bench joinery and we are half through our first practical project which is a basic frame using six joints.
1) through mortise and tenon.
2) dovetail halving joint.
3) haunched mortise and tenon.
4) bridle joint.
5) halving joint.
6) stopped diminished mortise and tenon.

Now for a side project my tutor has set us the task of finding 4 uses four each joint.
All I can find on the net is thousands of sites stating how they are made but next to nothing on what they are used for, and I thought I would bring it to the experts for help.
I have joint 1 sorted but 2 is proving difficult, the best I have found is it is used for furniture cross members.
thanks for any help you can give me.
Carl.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I'm not going to answer straight, as it's too easy.

If you want to 'cheat' (well get there really quickly), then Joyce has answers to all those questions, but look at the way the joints work, and the way wood moves and the forces that act on the frames and carcases made in cabinet and joinery work.

Also sometimes, you can't make the shapes you really want easily in wood, for example when making rebates or grooves for window frames and panels, so you have to compromise, between what you want and what you can easily do, and perhaps adjust some other part of the joinery to compensate.

Some joints are good for strength against being pulled apart, some against forces in one specific direction, some help to stop twisting, and some are for appearance, or to hide something that would otherwise be a problem.

This is one of the "must have" reference books:

 

[dzj]

A book on traditional Japanese joinery might offer a suggestion or two.

 

[AndyT]

I'll follow the theme - rather than just tell you answers to copy, I'll point out some more good sources of info.
Have a dig around in the sticky post https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/free-downloadable-woodworking-books-plans-ref-sites-t82220.html.

Use it right and you can find free PDFs of some great, older reference books.

There's at least one just on joints, but look at the diagrams in some of the joinery textbooks eg Ellis and also Cassel's. And Wells & Hooper for furniture.

I hope you enjoy your homework and remember the answers you find!

 

[markblue777]

If you take a look at timber framing as well and you can see a few examples of how some of the joints are used and you can see from pictures on how they would help in certain situations

 

[PAC1]

Eric. I do not regard reading as cheating. The whole idea of such books is that we read them to be able to solve problems. Today it is an academic question. In six. Months time it could be for real. If Carl remembers the answer is in Joyce I would say his teacher should be proud. In two or three years he should have the experience to work out the right choices.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Eric. I do not regard reading as cheating.

Neither do I really, hence the quotation marks.

But Joyce is rather terse on the subject of joints. Between them, Alan Peters and he crammed a huge amount into what is a very small book, considering, and it's not supposed to be an instruction manual either.

I almost always find an answer there, and, if it was an academic test, probably a sufficient answer. But for the full 'how-to' it's rarely enough, and I usually at least have to sit and think for a bit, or go look elsewhere. For example, I'm considering something involving angled dovetails at the moment as a Christmas present for my wife. Joyce 'covers' the subject, but barely (one paragraph and a blurry drawing). I have some bound sets of The Woodworker, 1934 - 36. It's in there somewhere and runs to about three full pages, IIRC (have yet to look it up).

I think we agree that knowledge of facts is on the route to understanding, but not the destination. I've done a little teaching down the years*, and the really rewarding moments were when you see someone smile because they understand the thing sufficiently, rather than just remember a fact you told them. [/quote]

I do hope he gets a copy of Joyce though: it's something he can eventually pass on to the next generation with a smile and, "I bought this when I was in college. I still go back to it."

Knowing what I know now, if I had my time again, I'd have slept out on Alan Peter's doorstep if that's what it would have taken to get a job in his workshop.

E.

*in a quite different subject area.

 

[PAC1]

Between Joyce and George Ellis I find the answer to most things joinery related. For instance recently I was making a door with an arched inside top rail which requires the shoulder of the tenon to be on an angle whilst the rail remains at a right angle. In Ellis there is a description of a sliding bevel that makes setting out both faces easy. After making the bevel the joint fit right first time. I know George Ellis book is readily available from Stobart Davis, Joyce is usually more difficult to acquire.

 

[AndyT]

I recommend bookfinder.com to track down new or used books including Joyce. It looks as if the hardback uk edition is out of print but the US "Encyclopedia of Furniture Making" which I think is the same book is around. Uk paperback is ok - I've even seen it in WH Smith which still has a few books in among the toys sweets and overpriced stationery. Plenty of used editions too.

 

[Jacob]

Have a look at some joinery/furniture/woodwork etc. There will be some near you. It's easily overlooked but it is the very best source of info on woodwork

 

[Phil Pascoe]

loads of copies of Joyce on Waterstones Marketplace - not cheap, though.

 

[Carl Dancer]

Cheers for all the comments guys been a great help!! i have pretty much covered the first 5 joints just have to find 4 uses for this now.

 

[Myfordman]

Think about reasons why you would use a haunch in a joint and then additionally applications where you would not want the haunch to show hence the reason for tapering it. Sometimes called a secret haunch too.

I doubt your tutor has a list of right and wrong applications but if you show that you understand the features of the joint in your choice of applications then it should be acceptable.

 

[Eric The Viking]

And the haunch doesn't need to be sloped, necessarily. If it isn't, the haunch might have a range of different functions...