Totally flat solid Ash exterior door.

[Guyforks]

Hi Folks.

I’ve had a customer ask for a solid Ash exterior door to be made.

This wouldn’t normally be a problem but they want it totally flat all over, no panels, no frames.

I’m having trouble seeing how this can be done and it still fit into a door frame after the thing has expanded, contracted and twisted a few dozen times.

It’s being painted so that will help plus I can cut the board widths down and alternate the grain but without any cross members anywhere surely it’s still ultimately going to cup?

Does anyone think double plywood splines might help?

Glynn.

 

[RobinBHM]

I sounds like a recipe for disaster!

 

[kostello]

Why not just fit a flush fire door?

 

[Guyforks]

Hi kostello.
They've asked for something made up from solid. They looked at off the shelf but were unimpressed. Too light weight.
They want heavy, solid and somewhat expensive.
In honesty they want to spend.

Glynn.

 

[Woodmonkey]

Ash frame with ash veneered panels. Looks like sold ash but without the problems. What's the point if its being painted anyway?

 

[aesmith]

What about PEG, that chemical that wood turners use to soak green wood in?

 

[James-1986]

I've done one similar. I made up a normal door from softwood, three rails with a muntin either side of the mid rail. I put celotex in the gaps. I got some good quality Thames marine ply (you could probably use birch if it isn't getting hammered with rain) and veneered it with oak, stuck that to the door and then lipped the sides with solid.

As far as I know it hasn't fallen apart! My only concern was the lipping coming away from the edge of the ply.

If someone insisted on making a door from solid to look flush, I would politely inform them that I am too busy

 

[Phil Pascoe]

They want to spend? Great. Explain what'll happen and give them a price. Tell them that the replacement in 18 months time will cost them 10% more, and so on ad infinitum.

 

[monkeybiter]

What about PEG, that chemical that wood turners use to soak green wood in?

From what I've read on the subject the impregnation leaves a waxy finish which would possibly be impossible to paint. Would probably take a few weeks to fully impregnate.

 

[Chrispy]

Years ago I came across called something like Iple wood, it seemed to be any open grained wood that had been totally impregnated with a plastic of some kind, this resulted in something that looked like wood but is very heavy and totally enert to moisture and movement, if you could find this in Ash and then found a way to machine it and joint it you would have what you want, a heavy solid flat stable Door. And I expect be very expensive too.

 

[Guyforks]

Thanks for the replys.

I’ve already got back to them and told them I’m not prepared to make a door like that.
I’ve suggested a door made of multiple quality ply boards and solid edgings.
It’s going to be better all round, heavy and they’re painting it so.

This has more to do with the fact this house is several hundred meters away from some of the highest value property on this planet than to do with what they need to have.

Regards
G.

 

[Hickorystick]

Thats good - honesty is the best policy here. You could be walking into an ongoing nightmare with this door long after the profit margin is spent and forgotten ! If they don't like your suggestion part on good terms, smile and move on...

 

[blackrodd]

I've made doors up with ash, but traditional, ash t&g ledge and brace, It was very strong and was no problem, 1" t&g, 1.1/4" ledge and brace, I even cut a letter plate in it!
I also have a 40" wide elm front door, made in two pieces, beaded and rebated together in the middle and 40 mm thick,
Two 10" wide ledges, top and bottom and i found a large hand forged metal strap about 2.1/2"x 1/4" thick at a sale, this is bolted across the centre, full width, just above the cast iron letter plate.
I made the frame from 4"x 3" and used 2 large old 15" forged tee hinges for hanging.
Expecting problems, I left the screws in the 1" door stops showing to allow adjustment, which wasn't needed.
It is tighter against the stops in the winter, than the summer, so have ended up using an alloy and rubber draught excluder, which is painted buckingham green as the frame and blends in well.
As I have a traditional looking two plank door, solid, and strong in my 200+years old cottage, I'm very pleased with the end result, been there now about 18 years now,
I have had several neighbours enquire as to making them one but I've always been to busy to fall out with people should the next one go warpy! Regards Rodders

 

[Max Power]

Ash is a very poor choice for exterior joinery, its very poor in terms of durability :?

 

[RogerS]

Ash is a very poor choice for exterior joinery, its very poor in terms of durability :?

Morgan Cars seem to do OK with it ?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Shovel and spade handles don't.

 

[blackrodd]

Shovel and spade handles don't.

I have found that most ash handles for gardening tools that break, always at the bottom, are due to being left out in the rain and then drying out in the sun, leaving them weakened.
Don't forget that ash is used for wooden spokes on horse drawn wagons and lasted on Henry fords cars for years.
Regards Rodders

 

[Max Power]

"Don't forget that ash is used for wooden spokes on horse drawn wagons"
Ash is rarely used for spokes, Oak is the timber of choice for spokes. Ash is however usually used for the felloes (pronounced fellies as in tellies) but for its ability to withstand the impacts from the road rather than its durability. Most old carriage wheels that need repairing will often only need new felloes with the spokes remaining sound. If you were to choose a hardwood for its durability Ash would be well down the list of options

 

[RobinBHM]

Ash is durability class 5, with tulipwood and beech, so not great!

Ive often wondered about ash used for garden tool handles and cars like the Morris traveller. Ive guess it chosen for strength not durability.

 

[blackrodd]

"Don't forget that ash is used for wooden spokes on horse drawn wagons"
Ash is rarely used for spokes, Oak is the timber of choice for spokes. Ash is however usually used for the felloes (pronounced fellies as in tellies) but for its ability to withstand the impacts from the road rather than its durability. Most old carriage wheels that need repairing will often only need new felloes with the spokes remaining sound. If you were to choose a hardwood for its durability Ash would be well down the list of options

If you should watch making a wooden carriage wheel by heritage craft, on u tube, you will see that the felloes or rims, AND the spokes are both made of ash.
The main reason is because ash is is quite flexible and will help to absorb the shock of rough roads, which is the same reason for wooden chassis on some cars, it's flexibility.
Oak and elm were used for the hub, It's probably fair to say that some of this varied from region to region.
But oak would be far too hard I should think, never heard of oak spokes in a wagon wheel.
A few years ago I was speaking to a horse and wagon driver and he said in hot, dry summers the wheel spokes and felloes would shrink, so they left the wheels in the stream overnight to expand somewhat! Regards Rodders