Tool Auction at Stowmarket

[bugbear]

Never thought to make such a simple device. I've always used a rule to set the distance from the eclipse jig (DC modified) to the blade edge which is a bit hit and missy to say the least...so will now have to go out to the 'shop and find a couple of bits of ply - Rob

For me the "compromise" was to use a combo square set to the right distance - which is a bit extravagant (and still not as dead-nuts repeatable as the jig, assuming you ever use the combo square for other purpose!)

BugBear

 

[MarcW]

Never thought to make such a simple device. I've always used a rule to set the distance from the eclipse jig (DC modified) to the blade edge which is a bit hit and missy to say the least...so will now have to go out to the 'shop and find a couple of bits of ply - Rob

Hey Rob,

Don't do that. It is that easy to set the correct distance by eye. 8 times of 10 I'm right at the millimeter. Setting by eye, fixing the screw a little bit measuring, fixing seriously and go. It's kind of that easy. :wink: And the jig where's my jig? Is it the right one? Turn it over, the correct angle at the other side, God where are my glasses? Hey much of fuss! [-(

Regards, Marc

 

[Alf]

And the jig where's my jig? Is it the right one? Turn it over, the correct angle at the other side, God where are my glasses? Hey much of fuss! [-(

That's easily fixed. For my turning gouge sharpening jig I have blocks screwed to the board the grinder is bolted on at the right distances from the edge - always handy and ready to use. Mind you I do have to check which is the one for the spindle gouges and which is for the bowl gouge, but it's not that hard. I get it right nine times out of ten... :wink: If I used honing guides more I'd probably do the same for that - hard to lose when there's a grinder attached to it :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

I have a piece of lipped and varnished chipboard on which I have all my sharpening stuff. I've fixed my blocks to that, so when the short-term memory loss kicks in I can still find them :lol:

Paul

 

[David C]

Mike,

Not found that drawing yet?

You are a bad man and you know why!

best possible wishes and salutations,
David

 

[bugbear]

Hey Rob,

Don't do that[make a jig]. It is that easy to set the correct distance by eye. 8 times of 10 I'm right at the millimeter.

I'm sure you can. But I believe there are strong practical benefits to the tremendous (absurd!) consistency bought by the simple jig.

It's not about having the same bevel angle for cutting - cutting IS effected by bevel angle, but 0.5 degrees makes little difference.

It's about rapid sharpening.

If you can't hit the identical bevel-plane at each sharpening, you have to do enough work to convert the angle of the tool to the angle of presentation.

This is excess work, and excess removal of precious tool IMHO.

Setting by jig, by physical gauge is very quick - probably quicker than eye, since it requires almost no care or attention.

BugBear

 

[MarcW]

I'm sure you can. But I believe there are strong practical benefits to the tremendous (absurd!) consistency bought by the simple jig.

It's not about having the same bevel angle for cutting - cutting IS effected by bevel angle, but 0.5 degrees makes little difference.

It's about rapid sharpening.

If you can't hit the identical bevel-plane at each sharpening, you have to do enough work to convert the angle of the tool to the angle of presentation.

This is excess work, and excess removal of precious tool IMHO.

Setting by jig, by physical gauge is very quick - probably quicker than eye, since it requires almost no care or attention.

BugBear

For sure BugBear, the angle has to be consistent. I always measure before I fix the screw. Finally the distance from corner to guide will always be in the range of a quarter of millimeter. In the left hand the blade with the guide and in the right one the steel rule and later the screwdriver. What is quicker? I don't know but certainly there is no more than a couple of seconds of difference. And that's no great gain.

Important to me is to be careful and to put attention to what I do. I like attention and working rhythm. It maybe sounds warped but that's one reason why I'm in woodworking. Detecting why something doesn't work gives me kind of pleasure. Nothing better than a well fitting joint!

Regards, Marc

 

[David C]

Marc,

Detecting why something does not work or does not fit, gives me enormous satisfaction and pleasure. This is surely the route to better technique and better work.

I regularly harrangue my students with virtually your exact phrase!

David Charlesworth

 

[MarcW]

Marc,

Detecting why something does not work or does not fit, gives me enormous satisfaction and pleasure. This is surely the route to better technique and better work.

I regularly harrangue my students with virtually your exact phrase!

David Charlesworth

David,
BugBear,

This phrase salvaged my newly bought lumber yesterday. While ripping a two inch board I couldn't saw to the marked line. (4.5 tpi handsaw) I used a wedge, but that didn't prevent the saw from binding. I found out that the set was to shallow. After setting jointing and sharpening, the sawkerf got straight. This was an enormously satisfying moment. What would have been the alternative? I don't have any machines anymore except a small circular saw of which I certainly would burn its inside if using it to cut this thickness.

Now I'm a teacher too and maybe this kind of phrase comes to us more easily as to others. Judging by the sheer number of posts, Bugbear, you must be older than I am. And I would never want to teach anybody with such an amount of experience. Not that someone had expressed this, just in case someone could think it. :wink:

A honing guide where I'd love to use a jig other than that delivered with is the Veritas MKI. But as someone mentioned already, differently thick blades discourage this. The measuring method would be helpful here, if there was a small fence to hold the blade against. Only to put the blade square to the guide is so tedious.

Regards, Marc

 

[bugbear]

A honing guide where I'd love to use a jig other than that delivered with is the Veritas MKI. But as someone mentioned already, differently thick blades discourage this.

The Eclipse guide has exactly the same (geometrical) issue (*). But (as I said) consistency of angle between sharpenings is much more important than getting some "absolute" angle, so (in practice) I don't worry about the difference in bevel angle I'm getting between "normal" bailey blades (a scant 1/8", or 2/16") and woodie blades (a scant 3/16")

With a projection distance of 1 1/2" inches for 30 degree, a height difference of the 1/16" (3/16" - 2/6") makes a angle difference of invtan((1/16)/1.5) ~= 2 degrees.

BugBear

(*) only jigs that reference the back surface of the blade get this right, and there aren't many. LV mk II is notable here.

 

[MarcW]

With a projection distance of 1 1/2" inches for 30 degree, a height difference of the 1/16" (3/16" - 2/6") makes a angle difference of invtan((1/16)/1.5) ~= 2 degrees.

BugBear

(*) only jigs that reference the back surface of the blade get this right, and there aren't many. LV mk II is notable here.

2 degrees neglectable, the jig would not only help finding the consistent angle, but get the blade's edge parallel to the guide's edge. Skew blades would profit from this. :arrow: I will put it on my to-do-list. Thanks!

Regards, Marc

 

[Paul Chapman]

A honing guide where I'd love to use a jig other than that delivered with is the Veritas MKI.

Marc, I have the Veritas Mk1 honing guide and the angle setting jig supplied with it, but I have never found the Veritas angle setting jig very good. I now use the "BugBear type" (as I call it :wink: ) wooden jig with it, and that has been very successful, fast and consistent and helps to keep the honed edge square.

Paul

 

[bugbear]

... and helps to keep the honed edge square.

On a rather separate note, don't assume that simply because a blade is square in the honing guide, that the blade will inevitably end up sharpened square.

No honing guide exerts enough "authority" to stop the blade becoming skewed if you put more pressure on one side than the other. (*)

This is easily seen to be true, since no honing guide (not even my monster) exerts enough authority to stop you putting the David-Charlesworth-Recommended tiny camber on your smoothing blades...

BugBear

(*) in particular, the idea that the tiny roller on an Eclipse #36 has more lateral authority than a 2 1/2" blade under high honing force verges on the amusing.

 

[David C]

Bugbear,

well said. That is why the Eclipse pamphlet instructions are so thoroughly misleading.

In the sharpening technique which I describe and use, the squareness of an edge is controlled entirely with the force applied by two fore fingers.

If using my three bevel method, (Grind, coarse stone, polish) and if the coarse stone honing bevel is narrow, it is easy to square up a slightly out of square grind, or to correct an out of square edge.

This is much much more difficult and time consuming to do if one chooses a single bevel, or allows the coarse stone bevel to get too wide.

best wishes,
David