Tier 4

[MCTWoodwork]

MCT
That is a good thoughtful post and not a mad rant.
I don't know if the power grab is intentional by governments, (and am not saying you are either), but big pharma and big biz will always try to 'power grab' as the economy relies on growth, otherwise it shrinks. The irony is that 'the economy' is banded about as the be all and end all, yet it too isnt actually 'real'. Money and the markets are manipulated all the time as people try to get an edge over competitors and governments fiddling around the edges (and our pensions etc require them so to do). I think it's probably more the nation states' hang ups with their own economies that lead to the loud cries of Shame!

It seems Taiwan and South Korea may have handled it a little better without crushing their economy, but I doubt the post colonial West will want to learn from 'Johnny foreigner'

I agree, it's the handling of this pandemic and restriction of freedoms and all that incessant fear mongering I don't like. I hate it. Look around you and watch people being led like donkeys to their AVOIDABLE slaughter nappies on their faces. A virus in nano millimetres in size, a 3 ply mask isn't going to stop it. Its here to stay for the foreseeable future mutating (as all virus do... no surprise there...!) so a person's immune response adapts, it fights back. The word fight is awful. Tries to return to balance 8s much more appropriate. Look to 3000 years plus of Chinese Medicine on how the body ACTAULLY works and you will realise Western medicine knows very little of how our body functions in relation to disease. "Dis-ease" starts in the mind. I don't want to appear like a keyboard warrior I'm just damn passionate about freedom and health (both physical and mental) Talkikg of the mental health crisis coming next year in my humble opinion it can easily EASILY be avoided if people THINK. I really do wish people took a step back and realised what was going on. That said I'm a peace loving person who wishes only the best for my fellow man, who wants the same happiness & opportunity for all in this world. Utopian view you might cry, hard core Liberal nutter you might cry. I'm none of those things! I just want to treated as I treat others, with a kind heart & with respect, whatever their views on this whole sorry mess of a year !

*2nd time steps off soap box*

 

[Jacob]

I agree, it's the handling of this pandemic and restriction of freedoms and all that incessant fear mongering I don't like. I hate it. Look around you and watch people being led like donkeys to their AVOIDABLE slaughter nappies on their faces. A virus in nano millimetres in size, a 3 ply mask isn't going to stop it. Its here to stay for the foreseeable future mutating (as all virus do... no surprise there...!) so a person's immune response adapts, it fights back. The word fight is awful. Tries to return to balance 8s much more appropriate. Look to 3000 years plus of Chinese Medicine on how the body ACTAULLY works and you will realise Western medicine knows very little of how our body functions in relation to disease. "Dis-ease" starts in the mind. I don't want to appear like a keyboard warrior I'm just damn passionate about freedom and health (both physical and mental) Talkikg of the mental health crisis coming next year in my humble opinion it can easily EASILY be avoided if people THINK. I really do wish people took a step back and realised what was going on. That said I'm a peace loving person who wishes only the best for my fellow man, who wants the same happiness & opportunity for all in this world. Utopian view you might cry, hard core Liberal nutter you might cry. I'm none of those things! I just want to treated as I treat others, with a kind heart & with respect, whatever their views on this whole sorry mess of a year !

*2nd time steps off soap box*

Chinese remedies didn't help the Chinese with the virus. Chinese modern epidemiology/medicine did. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30800-8/fulltext

 

[MCTWoodwork]

Absolutely right.

But those who are suffering will look for any port in a storm, or any quack remedy purported to bring relief from whatever they suffer from.

It may have little or no scientific credibilty, but if by spending some money people are convinced it is doing them good then it probably is.

The mind, belief and emotions are powerful things. A little like the covid conspiracy theorists. It doesn't matter there is no credible evidence for their beliefs, that they believe them to be true makes it so. Others may be less than convinced.

I'm none of those things and 'quackery' is your only response to what I thought was caring response to the subject about what is going on in the world. You keep you your views and I'll keep to mine.

Chinese medicine didn't help the Chinese with the virus.

And you know that how? What is your source?

 

[Rorschach]

I agree, it's the handling of this pandemic and restriction of freedoms and all that incessant fear mongering I don't like. I hate it. Look around you and watch people being led like donkeys to their AVOIDABLE slaughter nappies on their faces. A virus in nano millimetres in size, a 3 ply mask isn't going to stop it. Its here to stay for the foreseeable future mutating (as all virus do... no surprise there...!) so a person's immune response adapts, it fights back. The word fight is awful. Tries to return to balance 8s much more appropriate. Look to 3000 years plus of Chinese Medicine on how the body ACTAULLY works and you will realise Western medicine knows very little of how our body functions in relation to disease. "Dis-ease" starts in the mind. I don't want to appear like a keyboard warrior I'm just damn passionate about freedom and health (both physical and mental) Talkikg of the mental health crisis coming next year in my humble opinion it can easily EASILY be avoided if people THINK. I really do wish people took a step back and realised what was going on. That said I'm a peace loving person who wishes only the best for my fellow man, who wants the same happiness & opportunity for all in this world. Utopian view you might cry, hard core Liberal nutter you might cry. I'm none of those things! I just want to treated as I treat others, with a kind heart & with respect, whatever their views on this whole sorry mess of a year !

*2nd time steps off soap box*

Wait, does the disease start in the mind or with the virus? Does the virus get into the mind or does the mind attract the virus. I am confused.

 

[Jacob]

....
And you know that how? What is your source?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30800-8/fulltext

 

[NormanB]

well it’s only 90% effective anyway, so if everyone in the UK got vaccinated that leaves 6m people at risk.

It is much more nuanced than that. The trials of the Oxford Vaccine did reveal 90 % effective in preventing people from catching or developing serious illness but importantly zero deaths whereas in the control group much more serious illness and of course deaths. Real world deployment at scale will reveal different outcomes but from this end of the telescope it is ‘encouraging’.

 

[NormanB]

That's the same with any vaccine though; but if you can get a decent percentage of the population immune to a particular virus then you greatly reduce the rates of transmission - such that those who cannot be vaccinated (or those who refuse, or those for whom it doesn't work) have a much reduced change of becoming infected.

Agreed but much more importantly is protecting those who are vaccinated (Hospital front line, older people, clinically vulnerable) protects them from serious illness and admission to hospital. Hospital capacity is the key indicator. Herd immunity may happen later, for much of 2021 chipping away at safeguarding capacity and the most vulnerable is the name of the game.

 

[DBT85]

Govt doesn't react as fast as most science says it should, and some people are saying all these govts are just power grabbing?

Those scientists really are trying to take over the world then.

 

[billw]

Govt doesn't react as fast as most science says it should, and some people are saying all these govts are just power grabbing?

Those scientists really are trying to take over the world then.

Well, one of the theories is that governments are using this to test the reaction to more authoritarian rule. I'm not subscribing to all this nonsense to be honest, and even if it's true I really couldn't care much either. Can I still watch football and make sawdust? Yes? Great. I'm in.

 

[NickVanBeest]

Well, one of the theories is that governments are using this to test the reaction to more authoritarian rule. I'm not subscribing to all this nonsense to be honest, and even if it's true I really couldn't care much either. Can I still watch football and make sawdust? Yes? Great. I'm in.

Guess the powers that be know that the society (capitalism) we live in is unsustainable with the way wealth is distributed, and fear a revolution, hence the perception that they are testing a more authoritarian rule? But whatever, like you say, as long as we can make sawdust, I'm good (don't like sports, so no footie needed for me)

 

[NormanB]

Since the average age of death for covid is 83 the vast majority don't have anything to fear. It doesn't scare me or anyone in my family.

Averages are useless information. I assume you have more legs than average.

 

[NormanB]

The numbers were very clear, the cause was still being investigated. The government was aware of the possibility as it was identified as a potential issue in early December.

That was the ‘critical’ information.

 

[Jake]

AVOIDABLE slaughter nappies on their faces. A virus in nano millimetres in size, a 3 ply mask isn't going to stop it.

The purpose of mask wearing is not to protect the person wearing the mask, it is to protect others in case the wearer is infectious. The size of the virus itself is irrelevant, as it is not emitted in the form of individual viruses but in droplets/aerosol particles. Masks are proven to reduce spread and it is spectacularly selfish to argue against wearing them.

 

[NormanB]

I'm none of those things and 'quackery' is your only response to what I thought was caring response to the subject about what is going on in the world. You keep you your views and I'll keep to mine.



And you know that how? What is your source?

I believe tin foil hats work too.
I am not gullible because I have a magic fish too.

 

[Jake]

It is much more nuanced than that. The trials of the Oxford Vaccine did reveal 90 % effective in preventing people from catching or developing serious illness but importantly zero deaths whereas in the control group much more serious illness and of course deaths. Real world deployment at scale will reveal different outcomes but from this end of the telescope it is ‘encouraging’.

100% against serious illness (none at at all in the vaccinated group in the trial). The c90% is against mild illness (mild in context of COVID which I think means no ARDS).

 

[Jacob]

......) Talkikg of the mental health crisis coming next year in my humble opinion it can easily EASILY be avoided if people THINK. .......

Or DRINK?
Several suggestions that post covid will be big party time, the Roaring 20s back again.
Sounds good to me, could be worth isolating for!

 

[Rorschach]

The purpose of mask wearing is not to protect the person wearing the mask, it is to protect others in case the wearer is infectious. The size of the virus itself is irrelevant, as it is not emitted in the form of individual viruses but in droplets/aerosol particles. Masks are proven to reduce spread and it is spectacularly selfish to argue against wearing them.

I am afraid there is no proof they reduce the spread. If you would like to link to any peer reviewed studies that show otherwise please do.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Cracking bit of scaremongering/misreporting/misuse of statistics. Headline in The Times - "25% of covid cases caught in hospital."
When you read the article it said 25% of covid cases in hospital were already in hospital for some other reason when it was caught. Nothing whatsoever to do with the population as a whole. (The headline wasn't edited even after this was pointed out.)

 

[MCTWoodwork]

Wait, does the disease start in the mind or with the virus? Does the virus get into the mind or does the mind attract the virus. I am confused.

Oooh.....Chaos theory territory....let's really get this thread going!!! Wait...is that the chicken or the egg came first theory?? Quack quackery the lot of it if you tell me....

 

[stuckinthemud]

It is my personal belief that masks do nothing except help out the fashion industry, keeping hands scrupulously clean is essential, however, when you consider how many potentially contaminated surfaces you can touch on any trip out: fuel pumps, key pads, door handles, for example