This months F & C Magazine

[big soft moose]

:lol: Either you're being deliberately obtuse or maybe you're missing the capital H at the start of the word Hammer!

I'm pretty sure Corset meant Hammer as in sub-division of Felder tools!

I'd like to pretend i was making a witticism, but it appears that i was being accidentally obtuse as i've nver heard of Hammer as a subdivision of felder - come to that i've only a hazy grasp of what felder make

I'm new to this flat world buisness - if they dont make lathes then i probably dont know about them (apart from multico, and dewalt and the obvious ones like B&D, bosch etc)

 

[bugbear]

:lol: Either you're being deliberately obtuse or maybe you're missing the capital H at the start of the word Hammer!

I'm pretty sure Corset meant Hammer as in sub-division of Felder tools!

I'd like to pretend i was making a witticism, but it appears that i was being accidentally obtuse as i've nver heard of Hammer as a subdivision of felder - come to that i've only a hazy grasp of what felder make

I'm new to this flat world buisness - if they dont make lathes then i probably dont know about them (apart from multico, and dewalt and the obvious ones like B&D, bosch etc)

>> how much can there possibly be to say about a hammer ???

Try googling for American timber framers, discussing hammers.

They find much to discuss.

e.g.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f40/stile ... mer-57146/

BugBear

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Here at British Woodworking we try to test (we test products and review books, by the way) products that are interesting and new and hopefully good. We try not to test all the identical me-too products that come from similar factories because it's so hard to tell what you're going to get and anyway that's dull. We also test products that are being advertised, for the obvious reason that they we want to see how well they live up to their marketing.

There is a link between advertising and testing, but in my case largely in that the companies that advertise with us are on our radar better. That's not to say that we won't be critical. We recently descibed a Fox lathe as 'agricultural' and the wall-mounted Axminster extractor as having significant problems, though it is a great idea in principle. Both companies are wise enough to realise that they have to take the rough with the smooth, and I admire them for that foresight. By nature, I tend to be the sort of person who likes to encourage innovation and good ideas, so my magazines are always likely to look at the positives. I prefer to think of British Woodworking more as a torch or beacon than a police force or quality controller. I hope, though, that readers can identify when there are issues with a product.

Having introduced star ratings many years ago (actually when I was editing Woodworker), we don't use them so much with British Woodworking. I've found it gives you more opportunity to give an honest assessment, rather than having to justify a score. What do you do about a great product that has a significant flaw that can be sorted by the user? I think we often expect products to be perfect when we buy them, when in fact there may be a nugget of a good idea, and some fettling will make it not only better but also 'yours'.

By the way, I never sell advertising by promising a quantity of editorial.

Sorry for the rant.

Nick

 

[andy king]

Well at the risk of Jacob (Mr Grimsdale) on the other forum starting one of his tedious 'over there' threads on the other forum again, I have to say that it's these sort of threads that stopped me from posting as much as i used to.
I have to say i'm pretty stunned to hear the F&C or GMC take sponsorship as an incentive to review as that can inevitably result in bias.
In the ten years i've been doing my job, i can honestly say i have never taken incentives for a favourable review, and if there are negatives that i spot, i will say so, but remember, its an opinion at the end of the day, so what i see as good or bad others may disagree.
I am told by certain quarters that 'all magazines are biased to suit the advertisers' but I've never once had to review something because of an advertisement, if anything its the opposite because I work in advance of others when the mag is being structured.
I have had calls from our ads team asking how a particular tool or machine came out so they can then go back to the company in question and try and sell them an advert off the back of my opinion of it, but never an advert ensuring a favourable review.
In fact, I am left to my own devices when it comes to tools and gear that gets reviewed, (and hopefuly Nick will vouch for that) so I am always trawling the net, contacting manufacturers, anything and everything to try and ensure what I get in is as fresh and up to date as possible when it comes to the 'Test' pages, and its often the case that manufacturers will contact me to let me knw about a new product that they would like me to look at and give opinion on, and they accept my word, good or bad.
As stated, reviewers reputations are on the line, and if I went down that route, recommending what was essentially a poor product and every man and his dog bought one, it would do me me more harm than good!
There was a time when I posted regularly here offering advice in all quarters, not just tools and occasionally i still will, but tend not to bother with tool advice because of the way threads like this deem myself, Nick and others in our field.
It does strike me as odd that I still get PM's asking my advice though, and I always answer, but usually ask them why they chose to PM me rather than ask directly in the open forum...

cheers,
Andy

 

[bugbear]

What do you do about a great product that has a significant flaw that can be sorted by the user?

Now that is a truly interesting point.

People who buy old tools at car boots and then restore them (myself strongly included) are interested in potential quality as well as actual (present) quality.

BugBear

 

[jjc_uk]

I have to say that it's these sort of threads that stopped me from posting as much as i used to.

That's a shame that you feel that way Andy, I have lurked on this forum for a number of years,but very rarely post (not knowledgeable enough). But it is people like yourself who make interesting and informed posts that make me keep coming back.
Jim

 

[BradNaylor]

I have lurked on this forum for a number of years,but very rarely post (not knowledgeable enough).

That's never stopped most of us!

:lol:

Brad

 

[Ironballs]

It depends what you buy mags for as well, tool reviews are an interesting by product to me, I'm far more interested in the articles/projects/galleries. I buy one car mag (Evo) and I don't buy it for reviews, I buy it for the writing and escapism; I buy one bike mag (Singletrack), I sometimes use the reviews in it, but they don't have them every month and they also tend to review single item products rather than group tests and see how they live with them over months and years, again the main appeal is the off the beaten track writing. I gave up buying the other mags as they concentrated too much on the reviews and you get tired of the 6 monthly cycle of "The Ultimate Trail Bike" etc etc

I like F&C and I like BW, I also buy others when they look interesting, I also appreciate mags have to make ends meet and recognise there will be some stuff in there I'm not interested in. You should have seen the furore amongst Evo readers when they did one issue that was heavily (and I mean heavily) sponsored by Shell, it probably covered their costs for a month but it was a bit of a disaster and they were man enough to admit it

 

[Mr T]

Hi

Corstet wrote:

I'm not saying that F and C is naff after all I keep buying it. I just think some of the aricles could be fleshed out a bit. I want to know more and that why I buy magazines therefore if I see an article on a subject I would like a little more detail.

This is an issue I have raised a couple of times with F&C. When I have submitted articles there has been a 2500 word count limit, which can make it difficult go into detail. I have suggested that articles should deal more with the thought processes when making a project and how decisions were made, rather than an Airfix approach. It seems the editor is squeezed both ways, he is told from above that articles have to be instructional but even shorter (impossible I would say).

It seems that this is sales driven. When potential buyers flick through the magazine in WH Smiths (or whereever) if they see an article that is relevant to them they buy it. The more different articles, the more chance of a buyer finding something relevant, thus increasing sales.

It now seems that Michael Huntley will not have to put up with this much longer as a new editor is being appointed.

Chris

 

[Sgian Dubh]

When I have submitted articles there has been a 2500 word count limit, which can make it difficult go into detail. Chris

Chris, I believe F&C have tentatively scheduled one of my bits of waffle for publication in an issue, or perhaps more than one issue, perhaps in September or October.

I'm curious to see how they deal with the original's 8,700 word count, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[ProShop]

Hi

It now seems that Michael Huntley will not have to put up with this much longer as a new editor is being appointed.

Chris

Blimey he hasn't lasted long :shock: :shock:

 

[ProShop]

I have to say i'm pretty stunned to hear the F&C or GMC take sponsorship as an incentive to review

cheers,
Andy

Stunned is an understatement Andy :shock: :shock: .

Good to see you posting again

 

[Steve Maskery]

Chris
I'm glad you brought this up, as I was debating whether or not I should. I'd forgotten that it was you who told me about the wordcount limit at F&C, but I did remember the conversation, it is, indeed, a problem.

There have been times when I've been asked to write "200 words on X" It is necessary from the point of view of an editor who has a certain space to fill and nonsense to any prima donna artiste (apologies for mixing my foreign langs) who thinks his every word is a drip of gold.

I've twice got round it by using the ruse of supplying exactly what the editor has asked for, and also supplying a much better 6 or 8C version of the same material. In both cases the better material saw the light of day

I am now completely rumbled.

S

PS I'm not saying this just because Nick has decided to spread one of my projects over two issues thus giving it more page space.
But it helps.

 

[Karl]

I've been a subscriber to F&C for just under a year now. I've got to say that I have been seriously underwhelmed by the content. There are some good articles. But a lot of it just doesn't do it for me. I can read the mag in 15 mins - and I don't mean skim it, I mean read the articles which I find of interest and never pick it up again.

I don't think i'll be renewing my subscription.

Cheers

Karl

 

[Mr T]

Hi

Richard wrote:

Chris, I believe F&C have tentatively scheduled one of my bits of waffle for publication in an issue, or perhaps more than one issue, perhaps in September or October.

I'm curious to see how they deal with the original's 8,700 word count, ha, ha. Slainte

I suspect they will cut and cut again, or tell you to put it in a book!

Chris

Chris

 

[Mooeee]

My original post, re lack of content listed on the cover of F & C was to express my concern that when you pay nearly four quid for a magazine that lists on it's cover something that you may want to read about and then finding nothing of the sort inside leaves a bitter taste, as when magazines are wrapped in a sealed bag you are only going to find this out when you have bought the mag. With regard to all the machine and tool tests they can sometimes be good but surly the point of this magazine is to show woodworkers and prospective woodworkers how to make something, do we really need pages of tests on drill/drivers and the like, places like woodworking forums can tell people what the best and worst are in hand and power tools. Knowing that a certain drill bit can drill ten thousand holes is niether here nor there, and that somebody has even spent the time to test how many holes a drill will do before the battery will need charging.

I can appreciate that some people need to be shown what tools/machines are best and to pinpoint the worst, and only a couple of pages would be required for this, plans and cut lists, detailed photo's of how to make something must be better alround.

If manufacturers are paying to get their machines road tested and in the process getting the magazines to advertise their wares and do not permit citisisim then whats the point if your told that they are just great when in fact they are not. Just get the sales brochures from the respective machine makers as they won't critisis there own tools/machines either, AND THEY DON'T COST ANYTHING.

I do find that even the magazines like Fine Woodworking are for the more experienced woodworkers, but it's more fascinating/interesting to see how fine cabinets/tables/armoires are made than paying to read about machines that the very few that read the likes of F & C are even going to buy.

It's about time F & C got to actually produce a magazine for woodworkers about woodworking not for the man/women with the best kept tool cabinet, I like fine tools and I'm prepared to pay for them but I don't need to be told or shown that a Lie-Nielsen is going to be better than a plastic handled stanley.

Every body I agree has his/her own opinion but I for one don't like to buy something and find Iv'e been conned into parting with my hard earned cash even if it is only the price of a magazine.

 

[OPJ]

PS I'm not saying this just because Nick has decided to spread one of my projects over two issues thus giving it more page space.
But it helps.

It works in Nick's favour as well, as readers will have an incentive to buy the next issue, so they can see how you finish the job. :wink: 8)

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Sorry not to respond earlier: I've been away for a couple of days. I thoroughly endorse what Andy King has to say, and trust his testing completely. I do think that star ratings can sometimes be as restricting to the tester as they are useful to the reader, but that aside I have every confidence in what Andy writes.

Sorry not to respond to other parts of this thread, but I'm right up against a deadline!

Cheers

Nick

 

[Rich]

Sorry not to respond earlier: I've been away for a couple of days. I thoroughly endorse what Andy King has to say, and trust his testing completely. I do think that star ratings can sometimes be as restricting to the tester as they are useful to the reader, but that aside I have every confidence in what Andy writes.

Sorry not to respond to other parts of this thread, but I'm right up against a deadline!

Cheers

Nick

Chill out Nick, I don't think that for a moment, ANYONE thinks you are doing a bad job, but as a new editor, it must SURELY be a learning curve, and I for one wish you well in your endeavour, I'm sure it's not easy.

Rich.

 

[TrimTheKing]

and occasionally i still will, but tend not to bother with tool advice because of the way threads like this deem myself, Nick and others in our field.

This is a real shame Andy, as in any walk of life some people will say things through lack of understanding, understanding or even just to get a response, but if you know the truth then why not stick around and carry on as you were?

I for one (and I'm certainly not the only one round here) value your advice and experience, and for you to not be here because of how a minority believe you run your business is a real pity. Just turn the other cheek, or if someone says something untrue then correct them quickly and quietly and go about your business, helping me