This is how CNC should be done

[custard]

The work is surely 'fulfilling'.

We're drifting some way from CNC machines, but you're raising an important point. Unfortunately I don't think Silver Linings is much different from most independent furniture makers, in that the "furniture" bit is there for love or prestige or whatever; but it's almost always something else that actually makes the money and keeps the lights on. In the case of SL it's yacht fit-outs; for others it's heritage joinery, or fitted work, or joinery packages, or anything where there's an established commercial demand. Without a return of the studio furniture movement (and I see zero evidence of that coming back) then stand alone bespoke furniture making isn't really a viable occupation.

 

[woodbrains]

What a shame you seem to have such an elitist "hand tools are for pros, anything else is for morons" attitude...

Hello,

It is a shame you don't understand what I've written and then jump to the conclusion that I'm some sort of hand tool pedant.

Which bit of 'I run a 'CNC router, laser, 3D printer' do you think makes me the luddite you seem to think am? And where have I ever said I only use hand tools and not machines? Don't make silly assumptions, please. It is because I do many of these things that I have an insight in what is going on. 32 years ago, I was a sign painter and illustrator. Within 10 years I was doing nothing but laying down vinyl lettering, thanks to CNC. My salary became limited be the unskilled labour that replaced the skilled as they left and my work satisfaction was about as good as a public toilet operative. I left after the final job of laying a mile and a half of vinyl signs for what was the the old Wembley Stadium. It was the equivalent of a virtual lobotomy.

What I find worrying is the fact that we are so enamoured with technology, to the detriment of our brains and hands and ability to create. If you are 'thrilled' by a robot inlaying a metal sign into a bit if wood, then fine. If you are not doubly fascinated by a man with a drawknife and shavehorse making a chair from a bit of tree, then I am justified in being worried.

Mike.

 

[woodbrains]

The work is surely 'fulfilling'.

We're drifting some way from CNC machines, but you're raising an important point. Unfortunately I don't think Silver Linings is much different from most independent furniture makers, in that the "furniture" bit is there for love or prestige or whatever; but it's almost always something else that actually makes the money and keeps the lights on. In the case of SL it's yacht fit-outs; for others it's heritage joinery, or fitted work, or joinery packages, or anything where there's an established commercial demand. Without a return of the studio furniture movement (and I see zero evidence of that coming back) then stand alone bespoke furniture making isn't really a viable occupation.

Hello,

I know, but by yacht fit outs, there is an awful lot of furniture involved. They will be able to make furniture their stock in trade, because the ultra rich they sell to, money is no object. I doubt very much that they suggest Italian chairs for 300 pounds to their clients, as I doubt the Sultan of Brunei et al is interested in saving a few bob on his 150 million pound yacht dining room. SL are not even playing the same game as us, and they could have their craftsmen make rather than CNC, their clients can afford it. They buy hand made Bentley's by the dozen, and brag about the fact that they are unique because of it. But it seems that Mr. Boddington, reputed to be a mediocre craftsman himself, doesn't care. He is super rich himself and is likely little bothered about craftsmanship as much as rubbing shoulders with the glitterati at Monte Carlo.

Mike.

 

[cowfoot]

I’ll weigh in with an opinion - it’s certainly not by chance that many of those who’ve made a success of selling top-end furniture are from wealthy backgrounds. Life’s a lot easier if your target market pops over to shoot grouse occasionally...
I also couldn’t help but notice as a decorator that most people who describe themselves as interior designers are just posh birds doing up each other’s gaffs!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUnvgKhWZdI

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My friend's daughter started work for a luxury boatbuilder last summer, she came home one day and told her father that a woman had just had the handrails on her new yatch changed at a cost of £30,000 ....................... because she didn't didn't like the colour. Money seems no object where boats are concerned.

 

[iNewbie]

Now I'll just de-skill myself, or pretend I can no longer do what it can, so I can justify getting one.

Personally I'm seeing it's application more for things like jig making. I guess some people will buy them as a alternative to hand skills, but I think they'll end up being disappointed, I've met plenty of people who got a Domino or a Leigh Dovetail Jig with a similar rationale and it rarely takes them as far up the curve as they'd hoped. I think it'll be no different with this.

Hello,

They are handy for jigs, but I think it is just better to make the things as part of the (enjoyable) process of designing and making things. If the machine will allow you time to get on with other stuff, while it works away, then I suppose it is justified. But how much time will it save? Someone still has to draw the design and program the machine to run it, set the thing up, hoover up after it.....could we just have made the jig?

CNC does little to add to creativity, and a lot to enable the unskilled to make stuff the skilled already can. Silver Lining, the furniture makers for the uber-wealthy in Cheshire no longer make chairs. They farm everything out to CNC production and have thier makers assemble the stuff, sand and polish it. Still they cost £1000 plus each for a dining chair. Are the chairs better, is the craftsman's work more fulfilling? We humans seem to invent more and more insidious ways to reduce ourselves to talentless morons, for the sake of saving money or making more for the already wealthy. I run a basic CNC router in school and laser and 3D printer. The processes are boring, the products mostly reduced in scope to accommodate the machine, and the end products devoid of any 'life'. Whenever I teach the kids a hand process, most of the responses are, 'Isn't there a machine to do this?' All because of the 'gee-whizz' syndrome. Isn't that robot clever!

Mike.

Creative people will always be creative and for some even more so when they can use the tool to their advantage. For some theres always a divide between hand-made and CNC. I like to see people using both. Ron Thorn is a guitar builder who does this. Most of the guitar companies who want special inlay work go to him and his own guitars are a work of Art. There's still a ton of handwork in them. But his inlay work is the schitz.

In the middle of the photo theres arrow which you can click to see the other pics.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... 166/page-7

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... t-24945755

And he's still learning new Hand skills...

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... t-25015714

 

[MattRoberts]

It is a shame you don't understand what I've written and then jump to the conclusion that I'm some sort of hand tool pedant.

Which bit of 'I run a 'CNC router, laser, 3D printer' do you think makes me the luddite you seem to think am? And where have I ever said I only use hand tools and not machines? Don't make silly assumptions, please.

No problem at all, I'll break it down for you.

CNC does little to add to creativity, and a lot to enable the unskilled to make stuff the skilled already can.

You assume that the creativity lies in the making of something rather than the design? And it's quite a reasonable assumption that you believe someone who designs on a computer and has it make the design real is less skilled and creative than someone who makes it by hand - since that's pretty much what you have written.

We humans seem to invent more and more insidious ways to reduce ourselves to talentless morons

Not really a silly assumption that you are implying that those who choose to design and build by CNC are "Talentless morons".

You may well run a CNC router, but your disdain for it is evident. You may want to lighten up a bit, or perhaps start another thread where you can discuss the merits of handcrafting work versus using machines?

Cheers

 

[worn thumbs]

Well I've ploughed through the vitriol and prejudice and remain convinced that the gadget at the heart of this thread is extremely limited.To begin with it only runs a 1/4" collet router it may also struggle if the path runs across a cut from earlier in the programme.It will be limited to panel processing as the depth of cut will be in the great unknown if you happen to be trying to run a complex 3D toolpath.All in all I would much rather have a second hand Shopbot.If you disagree,please describe what you have actually cut on a CNC or be ignored.

 

[giantbeat]

i think this looks amazing, for the first run of this machine of its type its very exciting to see, my biggest bane is making jigs as it takes me out of production time for a few days.

will be watching, might even buy one if the good feedback starts coming in, i don't have the space for a CNC as they stand, all my workshop space is take up by my product production, non viable to move to bigger space to have a big expensive machine sat the only gets used 2-3 times a quarter... this sort of thing could provide a solution.

will be watching.