This is how CNC should be done

[MattRoberts]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/21 ... =home_potd

What a brilliant idea - gives you the power of CNC without the footprint of a massive table & gantry system

 

[custard]

Interesting.

I was aware of Shaper Tools (who have announced a tie in with Festool), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0clzXWSaCw

But it looks like they've now got competition!

Incidentally, I tried to order direct from Shaper but they say it's a US only product for the time being.

 

[MattRoberts]

The shaper always seemed a bit fiddly to me, with the reference tape and the fact that you will have to hold it even though technically you're not really in control of what it's cutting.

I like the idea of this thing in that you just have to buy the unit and you're able to cut any size you want.

Pricey though - $1,800 is the discount price for backers, so the retail unit will cost a fair bit if it reaches that stage.

 

[marcros]

I think it said on the site that it will retail at $2400

 

[worn thumbs]

I'm very sceptical.I'm also experienced with both 3 axis and 5 axis cnc routers.I seriously doubt that these gadgets will do accurate work.

 

[Flynnwood]

Wow - $795,572 pledged with a goal of $90,000

That's a result, and still with 27 days to go.

 

[woodbrains]

I'm very sceptical.I'm also experienced with both 3 axis and 5 axis cnc routers.I seriously doubt that these gadgets will do accurate work.

Hello,
I'm doubtful, too. How can it cope guiding itself over the the work, when it is making the surface uneven as it goes. And one tiny slip on sawdust or swarf, of its guide wheels, and the whole job is scrap.

Mike.

 

[thick_mike]

It looks like it's only aiming at 2D

 

[custard]

The fact that Festool have bought in to the Shaper product is interesting. Either they're really impressed with the technology...or they don't want to end up as Ford being outflanked by Tesla!

 

[MattRoberts]

I'm very sceptical.I'm also experienced with both 3 axis and 5 axis cnc routers.I seriously doubt that these gadgets will do accurate work.

Hello,
I'm doubtful, too. How can it cope guiding itself over the the work, when it is making the surface uneven as it goes. And one tiny slip on sawdust or swarf, of its guide wheels, and the whole job is scrap.

Mike.

I would assume that the software calculates the cuts so its wheels are always on a flat surface, but I could be wrong!

I guess it would be more prone to error though - a gantry system always knows where the cutter is, whereas if this device is knocked / jumps slightly, everything from that point will be off

 

[Rorschach]

If you read the page it shows sensor wires that connect, this allows it to keep track of it's position within a defined area specifically so that if the feet slip then it can re-calibrate.

 

[custard]

The Shaper version claims accuracy and repeatability better than 0.5mm. That doesn't sound terrific, but don't forget this is version 1.0. It won't be long before 0.5mm becomes 0.1mm, at which point it's hitting the tolerances required for fine furniture making. And it doesn't require a huge leap of imagination to see plunge depth becoming a controllable axis. And then there's pricing, it's sure to get cheaper as volumes and competition pick up.

Will it replace traditional CNC machines? Of course not! But I think this type of machine will end up having a bigger impact on woodworking practises than the router.

 

[Rorschach]

CNC machines like this also open up the functionality to people who would never before have been able to have this kind of option. Not only is there is a cost issue of an 8x4 CNC, but also the space. A unit like the Goliath or the Shaper are still pricey items but you can set them up on your patio or in a single car garage and then pack away to almost nothing when done. The portability also means not only can you work without a workshop, you can also move house with no trouble, or even better, share it with a couple of friends and split the cost. I know you can farm out this kind of work but there are costs involved and down time, also people in rural areas might be a hundred miles from the nearest CNC machine.

 

[woodbrains]

If you read the page it shows sensor wires that connect, this allows it to keep track of it's position within a defined area specifically so that if the feet slip then it can re-calibrate.

Hello,

Indeed, the designers are very clever. Looks like it is a good machine and capable, apparently, of the 0.1mm that Custard seems to think is the necessary tolerance.

Now I'll just de-skill myself, or pretend I can no longer do what it can, so I can justify getting one.

Mike.

 

[custard]

Now I'll just de-skill myself, or pretend I can no longer do what it can, so I can justify getting one.

Personally I'm seeing it's application more for things like jig making. I guess some people will buy them as a alternative to hand skills, but I think they'll end up being disappointed, I've met plenty of people who got a Domino or a Leigh Dovetail Jig with a similar rationale and it rarely takes them as far up the curve as they'd hoped. I think it'll be no different with this.

 

[woodbrains]

Now I'll just de-skill myself, or pretend I can no longer do what it can, so I can justify getting one.

Personally I'm seeing it's application more for things like jig making. I guess some people will buy them as a alternative to hand skills, but I think they'll end up being disappointed, I've met plenty of people who got a Domino or a Leigh Dovetail Jig with a similar rationale and it rarely takes them as far up the curve as they'd hoped. I think it'll be no different with this.

Hello,

They are handy for jigs, but I think it is just better to make the things as part of the (enjoyable) process of designing and making things. If the machine will allow you time to get on with other stuff, while it works away, then I suppose it is justified. But how much time will it save? Someone still has to draw the design and program the machine to run it, set the thing up, hoover up after it.....could we just have made the jig?

CNC does little to add to creativity, and a lot to enable the unskilled to make stuff the skilled already can. Silver Lining, the furniture makers for the uber-wealthy in Cheshire no longer make chairs. They farm everything out to CNC production and have thier makers assemble the stuff, sand and polish it. Still they cost £1000 plus each for a dining chair. Are the chairs better, is the craftsman's work more fulfilling? We humans seem to invent more and more insidious ways to reduce ourselves to talentless morons, for the sake of saving money or making more for the already wealthy. I run a basic CNC router in school and laser and 3D printer. The processes are boring, the products mostly reduced in scope to accommodate the machine, and the end products devoid of any 'life'. Whenever I teach the kids a hand process, most of the responses are, 'Isn't there a machine to do this?' All because of the 'gee-whizz' syndrome. Isn't that robot clever!

Mike.

 

[custard]

Interesting you mention Silver Linings, I know two craftsmen who are working there at the moment. From what I understand SL is no different to most bespoke furniture makers in that they feel honour bound to tell clients that really good chairs can be sourced from the (mainly Italian) specialist makers for £300 a time, where as a custom made set will be an absolute minimum of £1000 each. The only chairs I make are in matching timbers to accompany dressing tables or desks, and even then the commercial desk market (who take most of my slab desks) will generally spec Hermann Miller office chairs.

I'd love to make more chairs, but one hurdle is that each design generally needs 12-20 unique jigs, if I could bang those jigs out in short order it might, just might, start taking a bite out of the price.

 

[woodbrains]

Interesting you mention Silver Linings, I know two craftsmen who are working there at the moment. From what I understand SL is no different to most bespoke furniture makers in that they feel honour bound to tell clients that really good chairs can be sourced from the (mainly Italian) specialist makers for £300 a time, where as a custom made set will be an absolute minimum of £1000 each. The only chairs I make are in matching timbers to accompany dressing tables or desks, and even then the commercial desk market (who take most of my slab desks) will generally spec Hermann Miller office chairs.

I'd love to make more chairs, but one hurdle is that each design generally needs 12-20 unique jigs, if I could bang those jigs out in short order it might, just might, start taking a bite out of the price.

Hello,

Silver lining seem to turn over craftsmen as often as I do underpants. I wonder why? The work is surely 'fulfilling'.

As Robert Ingham once commented to me, 'where is the design?' they produce lots of exotically veneered MDF boxes as far as I can see. I wonder how they'll get on with CITES, essentially prohibiting most of their exotics. But then I suppose ethics isn't foremost in their working policy, considering the amount of sting-ray skins I've seen them use. Horrible, horrible outfit.

Mike.

 

[Stanleymonkey]

Very interesting take on CNC setup. I thought of a tethered drone when I saw the video clip. I love the idea of a more compact version of a CNC machine and the ability to place it on any surface is also very exciting.

It might have a few issues, but they've made a big lateral jump with this. Feedback from 5,000 first customers or more will help them and I'm sure they have the skills to solve a lot of the problems mentioned. Should be interesting.

 

[MattRoberts]

Now I'll just de-skill myself, or pretend I can no longer do what it can, so I can justify getting one.

Personally I'm seeing it's application more for things like jig making. I guess some people will buy them as a alternative to hand skills, but I think they'll end up being disappointed, I've met plenty of people who got a Domino or a Leigh Dovetail Jig with a similar rationale and it rarely takes them as far up the curve as they'd hoped. I think it'll be no different with this.

Hello,

They are handy for jigs, but I think it is just better to make the things as part of the (enjoyable) process of designing and making things. If the machine will allow you time to get on with other stuff, while it works away, then I suppose it is justified. But how much time will it save? Someone still has to draw the design and program the machine to run it, set the thing up, hoover up after it.....could we just have made the jig?

CNC does little to add to creativity, and a lot to enable the unskilled to make stuff the skilled already can. Silver Lining, the furniture makers for the uber-wealthy in Cheshire no longer make chairs. They farm everything out to CNC production and have thier makers assemble the stuff, sand and polish it. Still they cost £1000 plus each for a dining chair. Are the chairs better, is the craftsman's work more fulfilling? We humans seem to invent more and more insidious ways to reduce ourselves to talentless morons, for the sake of saving money or making more for the already wealthy. I run a basic CNC router in school and laser and 3D printer. The processes are boring, the products mostly reduced in scope to accommodate the machine, and the end products devoid of any 'life'. Whenever I teach the kids a hand process, most of the responses are, 'Isn't there a machine to do this?' All because of the 'gee-whizz' syndrome. Isn't that robot clever!

Mike.

What a shame you seem to have such an elitist "hand tools are for pros, anything else is for morons" attitude...