The "C Word"

[Jelly]

Whilst I've grown up around tools and woodwork, the woodworking community and various phenomena therin are rather new to me.

One thing I can't make hide nor hair of is tool "collectors": Are there actually people who soley acquire tools to display?

Seeing listings talking about the completeness of finish etc. puzzled me for a long time. I started to come across it as built up a set of woodies and a lot of moulding planes, and the deciding factors have always been "Is it cheap", "Is it functional" and for moulding planes "does the moulding fit my aesthetic sensibilities"... what it looks like and how original it is simply don't matter... Am I in a minority considering old tools as primarily functional objects?

 

[adidat]

Are there actually people who soley acquire tools to display?

nope! :-" :-"

adidat

(all, day, i, dream, about, tools,)

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

I do collect old tools, but I use them also, a lot of the time I think there better.

 

[jimi43]

I can't understand this obsession for acquiring tools....you wouldn't find me collecting them!

:mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Richard T]

I've only got a few ... just a passing interest you understand ....

 

[Vann]

Are there actually people who soley acquire tools to display?
... Am I in a minority considering old tools as primarily functional objects?

To display? Nope :!:

I've err.. gathered so many planes I'm embarrassed to display them, and if there are too many visible at any time my wife might find out....

But seriously, I think most guys here buy tools with the intention of using them. We just buy a few too many, or have a good experience with a tool and so concentrate on acquiring more from the same maker.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Racers]

Its only when you run out of space in the workshop and the big tool box in the hall and start displaying them in the lounge then you have a problem.
Hang on that sounds like me :shock:

Pete

 

[pedder]

One thing I can't make hide nor hair of is tool "collectors": Are there actually people who soley acquire tools to display?

I think it is more to have them, or even more to acquire themas act, wich fills the needings of a collector.

Two steps lower, there are quite a few people who buy tools to could do jobs.

Seeing listings talking about the completeness of finish etc. puzzled me for a long time. I started to come across it as built up a set of woodies and a lot of moulding planes, and the deciding factors have always been "Is it cheap", "Is it functional" and for moulding planes "does the moulding fit my aesthetic sensibilities"... what it looks like and how original it is simply don't matter... Am I in a minority considering old tools as primarily functional objects?

Not a minorty. But if you're looking for a good vintage tool, you have to face the fact, that some of your competitors buy tools as art. And you know the prices of art.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[condeesteso]

very funny Jim. We just need to build you a way bigger workshop now to house all those 'users' in.

 

[AndyT]

Interesting questions. There are, I think, many different approaches and attitudes, and I expect many of us will recognise them.

I started buying old woodworking tools because I needed furniture and wanted to make it not buy it. I've since got more interested in older ways of working wood and have acquired a much wider range of tools. They are all in working order and are usable, but I don't need all of them to make the things I do, so some of the tools will be rarely or never used - but I could use any of them if I wanted to.

But in getting these tools I have learnt a lot more about them and looked at them closer and do appreciate more about them than I used to. So if I had the opportunity, it's quite possible that I would buy tools from a trade where I would never use them. Cooper's tools are a good example. Almost nobody would buy them thinking they would start to make their own barrels - it's too hard, unless you start young and dedicate yourself to it. But I could own some cooper's tools and enjoy their functional elegance. The same would apply to coachmaker's tools and many more examples.

And why not? Nobody would expect someone with a collection of china tea pots to use them all to make tea in - it's enough to look at them, learn about the makers and enjoy them as objects. Tools can be like that. Once you start thinking that way though, ordinary common tools are less interesting and you start to want the strange, the rare and special. And that's the way into a collector's market which (like other collectors' markets) is driven by rarity and fashions. Have a look at the David Stanley auction site for some of their most unusual and valuable tools to see the sort of thing - or many of the posts on here.

 

[Racers]

I would like to say that all my tools get cleansed sharpened and tested.

Pete

 

[Sean Hellman]

I only have one tool that is collectable and will only ever be displayed. I did think about using it but as it has all the original labels still on it it is worth more in its unused state. Such a shame.
Some old tools I think are really beautiful and are very well made with a lot of thought gone into design and use. They are almost works of art in there own right. Shame modern tools do not have the same thought and build quality put into them. There are exceptions of course.

 

[Jelly]

I think I'm begining to understand the nature of this collecting business in relation to hand tools...

I suppose I have that kind of enthusiasm for the old cast iron monsters of woodworking machinery, its only lack of space that's stopped me aquring a veritable jungle of decommisioned wadkins and robinsons; yet I'd struggle to use them to their full potential.

 

[t8hants]

An unused tool is like an unopened toy still in its box, bereft of purpose, and a sad object. I can understand the desire to keep something as original as possible, but it is still an unfulfilled product that is a failure if it is not used. Perhaps it is just me, but I hate those museums which have some "original workshop" laid out as if the owner has just walked out. Firstly because the human element is forever missing, and secondly because a workshop should be making something, even it is only to explain the tools on display.

Gareth

 

[James C]

The more that collectors take from the used tool market the less there is available to those first time starting out woodworkers which is a shame.

 

[AndyT]

The more that collectors take from the used tool market the less there is available to those first time starting out woodworkers which is a shame.

I don't think it's that simple. If nobody wanted to buy old tools, they would get scrapped and be unavailable to anyone. But because there are collectors willing to pay high prices for some tools, the message filters out to people clearing their sheds or looking round boot fairs that some of those funny old-fashioned tools are worth a bit. So lots of tools get offered on eBay, in the hope of fetching high prices. Many of the tools offered are not in fact rare or sought after by collectors - but the belief that they might be means that they are available for beginners to buy them, and take their pick of the best.

You can see this happening quite clearly with planes, where there are plenty of collectors. The effect is much less marked with saws or drills which can often fail to attract a single bid - there are lots of bargains available for everyone.

On a slightly different tack, collectors often want a tool just because it is rare. But often, rare tools were not much use - not many sold, not many were made, very few survive. In contrast, a beginner woodworker needs the common, useful, successful tools - a Stanley no 4, not a 101½!

 

[gregmcateer]

I don't know about tools, but do I have a problem if I can't walk past a piece of wood if it's of turnable size?
What about not being able to chuck out the offcuts?
Or travelling errrrmmm.... a few miles to arrive at 7.30am to collect some beautiful olive wood?
- All seem pretty normal, I hope?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Sometimes, the collectors driving up the price of tools does us all a sort of favour. Nobody would be making new infill smoothers if you could buy a good working Norris for a tenner. If nobody made new ones, there would be no improving going on - it was Karl Holtey trying to find an iron that did more work on tricky timbers between sharpenings for his superb planes who first tried A2 and powder metallurgy steels.

 

[condeesteso]

totally agree Cheshire. It is an all-round good thing that the best vintage tools are now being collected and commanding high prices. This creates space for a number of fine makers to offer equally excellent (probably better) new tools at premium prices. I actually don't care if some vintage tools are never used again (like Andy's tea-pot point), but the fact there are now quite a few makers selling £1k-plus planes and keeping very busy is no bad thing - it protects some of the otherwise dying arts, it pushes the boundaries of what is good... and helps make the occasional special old woodie (ebay 35 quid, but know your subject to pick the good uns :wink: ). And it also nurtures the supply-side: blade makers, float makers, specialist rasp makers etc.
We don't need McLarens and Bugattis, but their presence helps define the overall 'thing', and helps set high benchmarks, the fact they are there is a sign of good health in that market.

 

[James C]

That may be, I struggle with the boot sales men who see nice planes that are collectible at high prices on ebay and then mark up their cheap almost toot because they think all woodworking tools that are "vintage" are worth lots of money.