The Axminster AC216TS thread - impressions and tips etc.

[Bodgers]

I finally managd to get into Axminster for a play with the saw today. First impressions are that it’s quite a nice bit of kit but a shame the side extension is pressed steel rather than cast iron, - it’s bound to add to noise levels and just gives a cheaper feel but I guess they’re trying to keep the price down.

Fence felt very secure considering it’s a clamp at the front job. Rise and fall & blade angle both felt smooth although the lock on the blade angle didn’t lock very well and I suspect the blade might move in use (hopefully just the shop one as it’s been played with a fair bit?). Riving knife is taller than the blade so anyone wanting to rebate on the saw will need to either modify or buy a spare.

Overall quite nice and with a decent blade I suspect a decent little saw. I need to decide fairly soon what I’m going to do and this one is definitely a contender.

I think compared to the Charnwood this is a better saw but for a comparible package (sliding table etc) it is more expensive.

I have cut a few bevels with mine and the blade doesn't move out of position. With or without the lock.

Believe it or not, although the pressed steel tables aren't ideal, they are much better made than the ones on the TS200/TS250. I'll be making a replacement for the right side table on mine like I did with the TS200. Noise is fine, tables don't move.

I've always been puzzled at the need for a slider on a saw of this size, is anyone actually cutting large sheet material on these things in a small workshop?

As far as the price is concerned, I think you are right, it is looking expensive now, but compared to that Charnwood you mentioned there is quite a big difference now with the solid cast internal trunnions mounted to the chassis, which must be adding quite a bit to the cost.

 

[Eric The Viking]

A couple of thoughts:

0. I agree: it looks like a significant improvement over the TS200 in many ways.

1. You mentioned blade alignment (setup), and that Axminster consider this a service issue:
Because it seems to have "proper" trunnions, which are referenced to the frame of the thing, you move the tabletop to align the blade, as is done on traditional cabinet saws.
In your first video, when you had it upside-down, we could see six (I think) bolts which hold the table down to the frame. At a guess you loosen these and thump the side of the table with a rawhide mallet until all comes good.
I see the left side is easily removed, so access to those bolts should be easy. I assume the right side is easy to do as well...
... personally I'd want to check and do the alignment myself (with a dial gauge), so I know it's correct. If it isn't you'll get a rough cut, burning and/or kickback. OK, it shouldn't move out after it's been set up, but transit is one thing I'd expect to cause it to drift.
Axminster might have costed service calls into the price (you always want a good guesstimate of the annualized failure rate (AFR) if you want to stay profitable). That would put the price up, I expect.

2. Table flatness: curvature along the line of the blade doesn't matter too much. If you're doing through cuts it's irrelevant. If you're trenching in some way it might, or if you have a mitre fence or a short sled, but generally not a biggie. Flatness on the other axis (left-right or parallel with the shaft axis) will matter however: It determines how accurately you can cut joints, square-off the ends of things and so on.

 

[Bodgers]

A couple of thoughts:

0. I agree: it looks like a significant improvement over the TS200 in many ways.

1. You mentioned blade alignment (setup), and that Axminster consider this a service issue:
Because it seems to have "proper" trunnions, which are referenced to the frame of the thing, you move the tabletop to align the blade, as is done on traditional cabinet saws.
In your first video, when you had it upside-down, we could see six (I think) bolts which hold the table down to the frame. At a guess you loosen these and thump the side of the table with a rawhide mallet until all comes good.
I see the left side is easily removed, so access to those bolts should be easy. I assume the right side is easy to do as well...
... personally I'd want to check and do the alignment myself (with a dial gauge), so I know it's correct. If it isn't you'll get a rough cut, burning and/or kickback. OK, it shouldn't move out after it's been set up, but transit is one thing I'd expect to cause it to drift.
Axminster might have costed service calls into the price (you always want a good guesstimate of the annualized failure rate (AFR) if you want to stay profitable). That would put the price up, I expect.

2. Table flatness: curvature along the line of the blade doesn't matter too much. If you're doing through cuts it's irrelevant. If you're trenching in some way it might, or if you have a mitre fence or a short sled, but generally not a biggie. Flatness on the other axis (left-right or parallel with the shaft axis) will matter however: It determines how accurately you can cut joints, square-off the ends of things and so on.

1 - yeah bang on - it makes sense when you think about it, which I didn't fully appreciate at the time. Later in the video I mention a second response from Axminster where they say you do it via the top.

2 - Interesting, I have wondered exactly how out of shape it has to be to affect different types of cut.

I suppose the larger these tops get, the harder it is to make and keep them flat.

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[transatlantic]

Have you tested the dust collection yet?

 

[Bodgers]

Have you tested the dust collection yet?

I mention it towards the end of the video (yes I know it's long) - 29.20 point.

In the test cut, I didn't have the guard hose attached. Without that there is typical amount of dust left on the top.

The main body hose collects most of the rest of the dust. The new under table shroud is now a much more substantial, enclosed, setup so you get much less falling down. I mention that there is now a cover on the underside rather than a wire mesh - which gives you an idea of confidence levels of how much dust is collected.

Caveat here is that my shop vac extractor doesn't meet the minimum quoted standards that Axminster state, so not really in a position to call it until I get my dust collector setup.

 

[transatlantic]

Have you tested the dust collection yet?

I mention it towards the end of the video (yes I know it's long) - 29.20 point.

In the test cut, I didn't have the guard hose attached. Without that there is typical amount of dust left on the top.

The main body hose collects most of the rest of the dust. The new under table shroud is now a much more substantial, enclosed, setup so you get much less falling down. I mention that there is now a cover on the underside rather than a wire mesh - which gives you an idea of confidence levels of how much dust is collected.

Caveat here is that my shop vac extractor doesn't meet the minimum quoted standards that Axminster state, so not really in a position to call it until I get my dust collector setup.

Thanks

 

[screwpainting]

I've done a long and rambling video of it now it is setup and in use:

https://youtu.be/GuddH2fTiGg

That was a good watch, thank you =D>

 

[M_Chavez]

Great videos!

Well, pleased to report that the saw is back, table is nice and flat, blade is perfectly aligned with the slots (although the slots needed to be bumped up with a file to get rid of the burr). One of the main intended uses is trenching, so flatness along the table is important for me.

A couple things I hope other Axi owners can help me with:
- I didn't quite figure out how to use the dust hood - surely, as soon as you put it's weight onto the riving knife, the knife deflects off its true position behind the blade?

- The fence seems to have a fair amount of yaw even when fully screwed down to the base, which makes it impossible to align with the blade. I recon I just need to shim the fence to its base and tighten up the screws? Has anyone had any problems?

 

[MikeJhn]

Had you thought of a router table instead of a table saw for trenching? just a thought.

 

[Bodgers]

Great videos!

Well, pleased to report that the saw is back, table is nice and flat, blade is perfectly aligned with the slots (although the slots needed to be bumped up with a file to get rid of the burr). One of the main intended uses is trenching, so flatness along the table is important for me.

A couple things I hope other Axi owners can help me with:
- I didn't quite figure out how to use the dust hood - surely, as soon as you put it's weight onto the riving knife, the knife deflects off its true position behind the blade?

- The fence seems to have a fair amount of yaw even when fully screwed down to the base, which makes it impossible to align with the blade. I recon I just need to shim the fence to its base and tighten up the screws? Has anyone had any problems?

Not quite sure what you are describing with the guard/dust cover and the riving knife. Do you mean as you tighten the locking lever on it, it deflects the riving knife? Mine doesn't do that.

I don't have the yaw issue with the fence. If you skip to the fence section in my video you will see me move the fence with my hand and it stays 100% parallel with the mitre slots. You need to make sure than when the clamp is on it is parallel. I found this part of the machine light years ahead of the old pre-2015 TS200 in this respect.



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[M_Chavez]

Thanks - yes, the weight of the dust hood + hose seems to deflect the riving knife slightly - perhaps, not enough to cause any difference.

In regard to the fence, there is the track that's bolted onto the table and the long rectangular fence that's bolted onto a wee carriage that slides in this track. Even if the 4 bolts are fully tightened, the fence is loose on the carriage. This doesn't seem right - I'll just shim it up and it should hopefully resolve the problems.

Mike - yes, that's what I've been using so far and it is not the best tool for the job in my case. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[MikeJhn]

Mike - yes, that's what I've been using so far and it is not the best tool for the job in my case. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Interesting I find a Router table much better/easier/more accurate for trenching?

Alternative fence thread: axminster-rip-fence-upgrade-for-record-power-bs350s-bandsaw-t104848.html equally usable for a table saw.

 

[Bodgers]

Mike - yes, that's what I've been using so far and it is not the best tool for the job in my case. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Interesting I find a Router table much better/easier/more accurate for trenching?

Alternative fence thread: axminster-rip-fence-upgrade-for-record-power-bs350s-bandsaw-t104848.html equally usable for a table saw.

I bought that fence as an upgrade for my old TS200.

Compared with the one on this new Axy, it is good (ableit bulkier) but no way better enough to justify the work in swapping it out. Especially when the new saw is in warranty and you would lose the small stock sub-fence (unless you could adapt it).

I think the new fence and rail excellent. I don't see how there can be any looseness in how the fence sits in the rail given the profile shape etc.

 

[transatlantic]

I wish I could pick up that fence for my current table saw, but it's too short. .. looks nice though

 

[M_Chavez]

Bodgers,

It could be that I'm just daft and I'm missing something

Here's a pic of the fence-to-carriage assembly. The red line highlights the joint that is completely loose (we're talking variance of +/-2mm off true parallel with the blade when clamped & different each time).
The screws that hold the fence to the carriage bottom out well before the wee sliders pull the fence into the carriage. See the marks below the screws (that's not my doing - it's how it arrived). So there is a gap between the fence and the carriage.
I am really struggling to see how the fence can possibly work when it's not fixed to the carriage... And how yours can be different from mine, assuming same parts were used in assembly.

Am I missing something?

 

[NickM]

In the second picture, what is the hole in the black piece next to the screw mark? If that hole is threaded, should the screw go into that, pulling the black piece up to tighten it in the slot?

(I’m only going by the pictures - I have no knowledge of the saw.)

 

[M_Chavez]

In the second picture, what is the hole in the black piece next to the screw mark? If that hole is threaded, should the screw go into that, pulling the black piece up to tighten it in the slot?

(I’m only going by the pictures - I have no knowledge of the saw.)

That's my understanding of how it works, but the screw bottoms out about 0.3mm-ish before the fence is tightened...

A shim would work. Or a file to the screws. But it's a brand new saw that has supposedly passed QC, so I'm reluctant to do anything (even though it might be easier to file the buggers down instead of dealing with another return.). Plus, I want to confirm that I'm not just being an idiot :mrgreen:

PS another wee issue for anyone intending to use the saw without the side extensions: the fence seems to be very heavy and it needs to rest on the table - it can't just hang off its rail as it does not support it own weight. This means that you can't move the fence past the table for an occasional wider cut (The Kreg on my bandsaw doesn't suffer from the same problem).
I guess it's mainly my personal problem as I did not intend to use the extensions - most people would.

 

[NickM]

Sorry, I see the issue now. Does seem wrong. One to call Axminster about. It might be as simple as having supplied the wrong screws.

 

[Bodgers]

Bodgers,

It could be that I'm just daft and I'm missing something

Here's a pic of the fence-to-carriage assembly. The red line highlights the joint that is completely loose (we're talking variance of +/-2mm off true parallel with the blade when clamped & different each time).
The screws that hold the fence to the carriage bottom out well before the wee sliders pull the fence into the carriage. See the marks below the screws (that's not my doing - it's how it arrived). So there is a gap between the fence and the carriage.
I am really struggling to see how the fence can possibly work when it's not fixed to the carriage... And how yours can be different from mine, assuming same parts were used in assembly.

Am I missing something?

Mine is 100% bolted down tight where you indicate. No slackness at all.

You mention that you are using the fence without the side extension. This sounds like a bad idea. You need at least the right extension otherwise the fence has nothing underneath it to support past the main table.

Can I hazard a guess and suggest that the reason why you have the above problem is that you have, on occasion, moved the fence to the right, into the area where the table would have normally been, leaving the whole fence unsupported, putting a lot of stress on the bolts you outline, and then slackening the assembly and causing distortion?



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[M_Chavez]

Hi Bodgers,

Nope - I never let the fence sit off the table as the whole thing looks like it would collapse as soon as you let the fence go (I didn't dare try it out). I've had the fence off most of the time anyway - only ripped twice to try the saw out, as I don't fancy ripping with a misaligned fence. And the base was slightly loose right from the start. It looks like the factory tried to compensate for the oversized screws by driving them hard into the aluminium base, but there was not enough clearance.

Anyway, once set up and with a zero clearance insert, the saw should be a great wee beastie - just slightly annoyed with all the faffing about. Hopefully, the next batch would be better controlled at source.