Table Saw Fence Position Confusion

[Mark A]

I got my new table saw a couple of days ago. I spent a couple of hours setting it up and making a stand, then today I was going to start making some wardrobe doors which involves ripping some timber. But I'm unsure about the positioning of the fence, and after watching This Video I don't want to make a costly mistake!

I understood that a short fence positioned between the top cutting tooth and centre of the blade is the safest way to rip timber, but the comments on Dodge's recent push stick thread have confused me a bit because they seem to totally contradict the accepted method of ripping. A long fence gives support along the full length of the timber, while a short fence only supports the work piece up to just past the top cutting tooth, where it could pivot into the blade if it isn't controlled properly.

Also, I read that the riving knife should be positioned to the fence side of the blade to reduce kickback, not centered?

So long fence or short fence? Toe in, or toe out? Featherboards or no featherboards? And when cutting sheet material should the full length fence be used?

Sorry - so many questions!

Cheers,
Mark

 

[flanajb]

I got my new table saw a couple of days ago. I spent a couple of hours setting it up and making a stand, then today I was going to start making some wardrobe doors which involves ripping some timber. But I'm unsure about the positioning of the fence, and after watching This Video I don't want to make a costly mistake!

I understood that a short fence positioned between the top cutting tooth and centre of the blade is the safest way to rip timber, but the comments on Dodge's recent push stick thread have confused me a bit because they seem to totally contradict the accepted method of ripping. A long fence gives support along the full length of the timber, while a short fence only supports the work piece up to just past the top cutting tooth, where it could pivot into the blade if it isn't controlled properly.

Also, I read that the riving knife should be positioned to the fence side of the blade to reduce kickback, not centered?

So long fence or short fence? Toe in, or toe out? Featherboards or no featherboards? And when cutting sheet material should the full length fence be used?

Sorry - so many questions!

Cheers,
Mark

I asked a similar question some time ago and was told that when ripping timber you don't want the fence being too far past the front part of the blade. This is because when you cut timber you are releasing stresses and it can then end up gripping the back of the blade. I suspect for mdf and ply that is not an issue.

Not able to comment on the riving knife question

 

[Mark A]

That's what I thought too, but the recent discussion made me think again!

Thanks

 

[Chems]

Starting out I'd go with the short length fence it is safer for a beginner. Just make sure your applying your pushing force against the fence not past the fence.

Top tips are, watch the fence not the blade, don't be frightened of the saw to the point that you don't apply enough pressure downwards and toward the fence. Only have enough blade above the table just to clear the materials your cutting.

I'm not sure about that one about having the knife near the fence, have your riving knife centered and make sure its just a little thicker than your blade.

 

[Mark A]

Thanks Chems for the tips.

This is the website which said to adjust the riving knife near to the fence

What about sheets of mdf or plywood - full length fence or short fence?

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Anonymous]

I position the fence to be level with the back of the riving knife when ripping timber, when cutting boards i send the fence sailing past by about 50 to 100mm. I have never had any problems doing it this way, but i have only ever used powerful machines with sharp blades.

 

[studders]

Though a good demonstration of kickback bear in mind that he does let go of the board completely, before it has even finished cutting, any saw no matter how well set up isn't going to react well to doing that.

 

[RogerBoyle]

I position the fence to be level with the back of the riving knife when ripping timber, when cutting boards i send the fence sailing past by about 50 to 100mm. I have never had any problems doing it this way, but i have only ever used powerful machines with sharp blades.

Exactly the way i've been doing it since 1979 and as yet have never had any issues

Though a good demonstration of kickback bear in mind that he does let go of the board completely, before it has even finished cutting, any saw no matter how well set up isn't going to react well to doing that.

In total agreement with that

In my opinion the riving knife should always be centered on the blade as I see no advantage for it being anything else,, It certainly isnt any safer as if it was health and safety would ensure that all saws came with it as standard..

Before committing to cutting materials for your wardrobes I would suggest you get some scraps of timber and get used to using your saw (get a feel for it )
try adjusting the fence to a length that suits you

I get the impression that you are a bit concerend/nervous about using a table saw and have reached information overload on what you can read about them on the net LOL

However if used properly the saw is no more dangerous or safer from any other tool in your workshop. Problems usually come when you stop treating the saw and indeed any other tool with the respect that they need

Roger

 

[Mark A]

I've had a good play around with it today and I've no more scraps left. I'm not particularly nervous about using it. Just cautious is all.

I've heard about googling, and the dangers of scaremongerers so I take everything I read with a pinch of salt. There's just so many contrasting opinions as to setting up and using table saws that I got slightly discombobulated. But they are afterall, just opinions.

I'm always careful when using tools. It's the things which shouldn't be dangerous get me. Quick-clamp hurt when you bend down and hit your forehead on the bar. And sliding bevels. I sliced my finger open with one once. I didn't know I had done it 'til blood dripped all over my router.

I'm going to (safely :lol: ) make some featherboards now.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[moz]

Have a look at this.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

Opinions are OK but could just be an example of someone beating the odds. HSE have the opportunity to study a lot of accidents, analyse what went wrong and formulate good advice based on that.

Riving knife should be thinner than the saw kerf but thicker than the plate. position should be central. It's logical. Nothing else makes sense.

For ripping solid timber, the fence should extend no more than about an inch beyond the leading tooth. Cue usual bleating about lack of support. Timber should be supported before the cut as there is little point afterwards. If the timber does curl as it is cut, trying to press the cut portion against a fence isn't exactly going to improve accuracy but it is going to increase the risk of the work being trapped and thrown back. Extending the fence as far forward as the riving knife risks trapping timber between the rising portion of the blade and the fence which is exactly what you are trying to avoid.

Parallel or toe-out. Definitely not toe-in. I set mine to toe-out by a a couple of thou' but that's to produce a cleaner cut on man made boards rather than any safety factor with solid timber.

Looking at the PDF, it is reassuring to see that the vast majority of accidents could have been prevented by using a push-stick and having a guard in place. HTH.

John

 

[jimi43]

Have a look at this.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

Opinions are OK but could just be an example of someone beating the odds. HSE have the opportunity to study a lot of accidents, analyse what went wrong and formulate good advice based on that.

Riving knife should be thinner than the saw kerf but thicker than the plate. position should be central. It's logical. Nothing else makes sense.

For ripping solid timber, the fence should extend no more than about an inch beyond the leading tooth. Cue usual bleating about lack of support. Timber should be supported before the cut as there is little point afterwards. If the timber does curl as it is cut, trying to press the cut portion against a fence isn't exactly going to improve accuracy but it is going to increase the risk of the work being trapped and thrown back. Extending the fence as far forward as the riving knife risks trapping timber between the rising portion of the blade and the fence which is exactly what you are trying to avoid.

Parallel or toe-out. Definitely not toe-in. I set mine to toe-out by a a couple of thou' but that's to produce a cleaner cut on man made boards rather than any safety factor with solid timber.

Looking at the PDF, it is reassuring to see that the vast majority of accidents could have been prevented by using a push-stick and having a guard in place. HTH.

John

Perfect! =D>

Jim

 

[joiner_sim]

I know the topics pretty much already been covered, but I'm adding my two pence worth!

For ripping timber, I set the fence just past the front of the blade. I find this allows the timber to part away if the hidden stresses cause it to do that and there is rarely ever any kickback doing it this way.

For cutting sheet materials, I set the fence so that it does not pass the centre point of the blade. I find if its set any further the piece you are cutting could jam.

The riving knife should be centred with the blade equally. I have never heard anything or would recommend anything to do with offsetting the riving knife. Also, the riving knife should be no more than 10mm away from the blade, I get it as close as I can.

Featherboards.... personally I've never used them on a table saw and don't see a need for them if doing normal cutting. I imagine if doing unsafe tasks like rebating, they maybe be worthwhile under those circumstances.

Someone mentioned how far to have the blade sticking out of the table. Personally, I tend to stick to the rule that whatever thickness your cutting, the blade should be about another 1/2 to 3/4 above that if its possible.

I hope my tips help, you should take a look at the health & safety website for info on safe working. http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/dimensionsaw.htm

 

[studders]

Cue usual bleating....

John

:roll:

 

[Mark A]

Thanks Simon, That's cleared it up

Cheers,
Mark