Table saw conundrum....

[9fingers]

I few posts back I tried to get back on topic with a suggestion to the OP :roll:

Bob

 

[Jacob]

I think he's a prat for raising an objection. People such as us on this thread pay the twerp's wages, and are giving Scheppach a bit of free publicity.
Plus it's perfectly OK to quote anything from anybody (within reason) without copyright or credits coming in to it, as long as you don't appear to be passing it off as your own work.
I hope they lose a sale!

 

[Lord Kitchener]

I think he's a prat for raising an objection. People such as us on this thread pay the twerps wages, and are giving Scheppach a bit of free publicity.
Plus it's perfectly OK to quote anything from anybody (within reason) without copyright or credits coming in to it, as long as you don't appear to be passing it off as your own work.
I hope they lose a sale!

Well this guy isn't on the fence :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[Jacob]

I think he's a prat for raising an objection. People such as us on this thread pay the twerps wages, and are giving Scheppach a bit of free publicity.
Plus it's perfectly OK to quote anything from anybody (within reason) without copyright or credits coming in to it, as long as you don't appear to be passing it off as your own work.
I hope they lose a sale!

Well this guy isn't on the fence :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

People here asking for help with a Sceppach prob and a Scheppach representative being really unhelpful and missing an opportunity. I'd sack him!

Come back all those ingratiating reps from LN LV etc all is forgiven!

 

[menatnma]

Hi , this is the prat, who actually values the wages that "you "people pay me, please see my original comment and note the edited version. As a contributer to this forum and as someone who actually works for a company that gives a dam about their customers and any problems they may be having, its sometimes nice to give credit where its due. .

 

[jimi43]

Hi , this is the prat, who actually values the wages that "you "people pay me, please see my original comment and note the edited version. As a contributer to this forum and as someone who actually works for a company that gives a dam about their customers and any problems they may be having, its sometimes nice to give credit where its due. .

Thanks for coming back to the thread.

You can perhaps answer some questions that have been bugging me since receiving these notes from Allan a few years back now.

Are these diagrams offered as a download from NMA? If not, why not?

Have these excellent diagrams and notes been passed back to the manufacturer for inclusion in their original manual?

Has the manual for any model been updated in published form and is it available on any website for download as is the norm these days with most manufacturers.

I welcome your considered responses.

Jim

 

[wcndave]

Hi bob, thanks for trying to bring us back on track.

I asked about jet cos i can get that here, i think transport costs for 200kg odd is going to be a lot.

All this talk makes me think about what i really really want from a TS, so perhaps i can summarise, and ppl can suggest either a saw, or what important thinks i am missing...

I would like:
- zero clearance inserts (not part of scheppach 2010)
- a really good "american" rip fence, solid, square, double sided, smooth, accurate, (mine is small, crap for jigs, wobbles, and single sided, the ones i see from states on youtube make me drool)
- standard size slos so i could invest in an incra mitre or other high accuracy incra type addons
- easy to access tuning, so you can set up without disassembling the whole thing
- ability to actually tune it all square
- sliding table that does not bow under a four foot piece of one inch by 10" oak
- easy to change blades, so i make the effort

These are all things the 2010 does not have, and perhaps my list is biased towards what i dont have than all the things i should want, however i guess one learns whats mportant when you dont have it.

I would go for a sawstop if they did them here, as they look nice, however i know the ax200 has lots of good reviews and the jets look smilar. 600 had some negative comments, so perhaps the 700? Problem is that here you cannot try before buy.

(apologies for lack of apostrophes, typing on an ipad takes some getting used to!)

 

[Jacob]

Hi , this is the prat, who actually values the wages that "you "people pay me, please see my original comment and note the edited version. As a contributer to this forum and as someone who actually works for a company that gives a dam about their customers and any problems they may be having, its sometimes nice to give credit where its due. .

Yebbut you still haven't got it - we shouldn't have to give credit to people who sells these tools (I'm not quite sure of the relationships) for offering explanations on how they work or how to mend them - it's their job!

 

[wcndave]

More posts... I also want to say that scheppach us to have a solid reputation for quality, like festool, however this does fall short, just look at some of jimis older posts and see the quality.

Menatnma, the pdf actually says "prepared by allan of nma" it, so its always credited. Even with these, they are hard to understand, and it is so damn damn fiddly to get to the setup. It takes hours of messing to get the sides off to even access any setup....

I would pay you £100 to get this set up right, with a bonus of £100 if you can show me how to do it, and do it in under 2 hours)

Also, you have to admit that the manuals look like they have never been proof read by someone who can speak english and knows what a screwdriver is. How long would that take. It took me hours to realise that a "4 way lever wrench" was a philips screwdriver! Fortunately i live in a german talking area, so will get them accurately translated for scheppach in return for a properly setup saw ;-)

We all think customer service is good, however people helping each other out by giving out docs that the uk distributor had to create cos the originals were so bad is not a crime. Also its not your fault, but you have to admit this product is pretty sub standard... (for scheppach). I have seen no good reviews really, from real woodworkers ( and yes, i am sure you could find me one if you looked ;-)

 

[menatnma]

Not all the drawings and plans drawn up by Allan over the years are available as a download for a few reasons, most are all hand drawn by Allan as as we are a company that has only , in the last couple of years started to use the web as a selling tool, they have never been put on electronically, to be digital etc.
All Allans workings are passed back to Scheppach Germany, who either chose or not, to include them in newer updated versions of instructions, as for the TS2000, that model is now obsolete about 8 years since, so Allan's notes that you have, are no longer able to put into print for newer manuals.
As Allan finds new techniques to use the Scheppach machines, he writes them out or draws them to show how to do a particular thing, old school.
Scheppach do have certain instruction booklets and parts drawings on their web site, but mainly just the newer models.
Over the years, we at NMA have been dragging ourselves up to date and this has included scanning in the older instruction booklets and parts drawings and these are available from us. We know that some of the copies are not great but as a small, family run firm, we have always tried to run our business that way and give a more personal, hand written if needed, service. This can also be said for Scheppach, they too were not quick to use the "modern technology" but as times move on and companies evolve, they are getting up to speed as well.
thanks

PS. Jim see your pm.

 

[wcndave]

Erm, worrying that the tale saw i bought new from dm-tools about 3 years ago is obsolete for 8 years already...

Edit: stand corrected that the 2000 is 8 yrs ob, not the 2010, however given the instructions from Allan are lumped together under TS2xxx not quite right to say they not made it into manual cos its obsolete, still hard to get manufacturers to build this stuff back in i understand.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I have no idea if this is helpful or not (it's intended to be, and I have no gripe with Scheppach or NMA - I have a Schepapach bandsaw and love it and Allan has always been very helpful) but have you considered the Xcalibur from Woodford? It ticks all the boxes on your list. As it's a Far Eastern Clone, you may even find an Italian supplier selling the same saw under a different name. Old-fashioned engineering, hardly cutting edge design, but built like a tank and its foibles are few and treatable.
S

 

[wcndave]

Finding same thing under different name is soooo hard here, especially when i talk the local german, and the hardware guy only speaks italian...

Looks like the exc would cost me at least £1,400 + vat, and i would hope to get under £1,200 inc vat.

I think i will keep trying to get mine set up, whilst saving up! However i have spent more time on setup than using!

 

[9fingers]

Hi bob, thanks for trying to bring us back on track.

I asked about jet cos i can get that here, i think transport costs for 200kg odd is going to be a lot.

All this talk makes me think about what i really really want from a TS, so perhaps i can summarise, and ppl can suggest either a saw, or what important thinks i am missing...

I would like:
- zero clearance inserts (not part of scheppach 2010)
- a really good "american" rip fence, solid, square, double sided, smooth, accurate, (mine is small, rubbish for jigs, wobbles, and single sided, the ones i see from states on youtube make me drool)
- standard size slos so i could invest in an incra mitre or other high accuracy incra type addons
- easy to access tuning, so you can set up without disassembling the whole thing
- ability to actually tune it all square
- sliding table that does not bow under a four foot piece of one inch by 10" oak
- easy to change blades, so i make the effort

These are all things the 2010 does not have, and perhaps my list is biased towards what i dont have than all the things i should want, however i guess one learns whats mportant when you dont have it.

I would go for a sawstop if they did them here, as they look nice, however i know the ax200 has lots of good reviews and the jets look smilar. 600 had some negative comments, so perhaps the 700? Problem is that here you cannot try before buy.

(apologies for lack of apostrophes, typing on an ipad takes some getting used to!)

The Xcalibur range are copies of the the delta unisaw and use biesemeyer type fences. I don't have the sliding table on mine as I don't have the room but I think it will tick all your boxes above. What is more it will take dado blades which some users like ( and others hate). It is solidly made and does not rely on bent steel metal for the critical components which are cast iron.
http://www.woodfordwm.co.uk/
Bob

 

[wcndave]

So they have 3/4" slots on both sides?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Yes.

 

[wcndave]

Mm, interesting... Can i find them in italy. Tell you what steve, if u can find a supplier here where i can get it at "reasonable" price, i will get your complete collection in my stocking!

 

[Steve Maskery]

Sorry, mate, you are on your own with that one!
Worth the effort though (on both counts!)
S

 

[wcndave]

Tomorrow being the one year anniversary of the last reply to this post, and I have not moved on an inch...

We are in the process of building a house (at the planning stages now) and I wanted to wait for that to be ready before committing to something, plus I needed the dosh.

However i will need a proper TS to actually complete the house, so I am back to actively looking.

I have been emailing woodford again, however not getting any replies.

The last I heard in Feb was that the 12" single phase was now 3hp instead of 5hp, and that the new webiste would be up by June latest.
(The picture on the website is really small, and when you click on it, you get a picture of a totally different saw!)
Also there is no longer the option of a sliding table.

Does the reduction in power really matter? it might be better as i will probably have 4.5kw in my shop.

I still think i will get it, as £100 delivery to Italy is not bad, (total £1,670 inc vat roughly) and it did tick all those boxes:

- zero clearance inserts (not part of scheppach 2010)
- a really good "american" rip fence, solid, square, double sided, smooth, accurate, (mine is small, rubbish for jigs, wobbles, and single sided, the ones i see from states on youtube make me drool)
- standard size slos so i could invest in an incra mitre or other high accuracy incra type addons
- easy to access tuning, so you can set up without disassembling the whole thing
- ability to actually tune it all square
- sliding table that does not bow under a four foot piece of one inch by 10" oak
- easy to change blades, so i make the effort

Just wanted to check though, if it's still the best option out there.

also the lack of sliding table nags me a bit... i made a sled for small pieces, however without a SCMS, the sliding table is my only way to cut largish boards to length.
For panels I use the Festool circular saw and rails, however what would i do for boards?

 

[Steve Maskery]

Dave
The Xcalibur is a new model now. If you do order, make sure that you ask for the new one. I don't know if Roy has any old ones left, but the new ones have the switch on the left and the blade tilts left too. So all the fantastic build quality of the old but with modern design for these features.

S