table saw blade

[marcros]

Did I imagine somebody mentioning having a table saw blade with a flat tooth profile that cut a kerf of about 6mm? They mentioned using it for cutting grooves, effectively like a dado set, but only a single blade.

Any ideas where I could get one? Blade size not that important- it wont be needed for deep work. Arbour 30mm.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Steve Maskery]

I've never seen such a blade, but Doug Perry at Cutting Solutions will be able to tell you.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Hey Steve, I was in Axy yesterday and they've got a cabinet saw now for around £2200 that looks suspiciously like the Delta clone (ie like an Excalibur). Very nice. But they didn't know whether or not its arbor was long enough to take a stacked dado head. Don't spose you happen to know do you?

 

[katellwood]

I use a trend 6mm spindle moulder groover on my Wadkin AGS works a treat

http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Onl ... m_869.html

 

[marcros]

i have emailed doug. It may have been the groover that I was thinking of, because that would do the job nicely.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hey Steve, I was in Axy yesterday and they've got a cabinet saw now for around £2200 that looks suspiciously like the Delta clone (ie like an Excalibur). Very nice. But they didn't know whether or not its arbor was long enough to take a stacked dado head. Don't spose you happen to know do you?

No, I haven't seen it - but if it is the same why would anyone buy it? The Xcalibur is 1k cheaper, is it not? And you can't fault the built quality. The new model (which I haven't seen in the flesh) also tilts left and has the switch on the left, too, so it seems just about perfect to me.

WRT the arbor, you can tell by looking at it. I would be astonished it it did come with a long arbour as standard. Maybe, if it is a real clone, the long spindle from Woodford (which is not standard fitted but is a readily available extra, I believe) would fit.

S

 

[Steve Maskery]

If you use a groover, check that the speed is compatible and use a zero-cleance insert.
S

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Hey Steve, I was in Axy yesterday and they've got a cabinet saw now for around £2200 that looks suspiciously like the Delta clone (ie like an Excalibur). Very nice. But they didn't know whether or not its arbor was long enough to take a stacked dado head. Don't spose you happen to know do you?

No, I haven't seen it - but if it is the same why would anyone buy it? The Xcalibur is 1k cheaper, is it not? And you can't fault the built quality. The new model (which I haven't seen in the flesh) also tilts left and has the switch on the left, too, so it seems just about perfect to me.

WRT the arbor, you can tell by looking at it. I would be astonished it it did come with a long arbour as standard. Maybe, if it is a real clone, the long spindle from Woodford (which is not standard fitted but is a readily available extra, I believe) would fit.

S

Thanks for that. I did check the arbor but there wasn't a blade installed so it was rather difficult to judge the gap as without a blade there's no reference. The build quality was very sturdy (more like a wadkin in fact) and it had a rather flash panel cutting/sliding table mechanism to the side (with the moving under arm design). However.....at a grand cheaper, you make a good point about the Woodford machine!

 

[Steve Maskery]

I've just looked at the Axy site and, to be fair, it is more of a machine than the basic Xcalibur. It's 12" for a start and comes with outfeed table and sliding table. It also looks like the ali fence can be easily unlocked (I assume that's what that second lever is for) and withdrawn to operate as a short rip fence.

OTOH the blade still tilts towards the fence and the switch is still on the right.

But yes, that does look like a very nice machine.
S

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

That's right...the fence was well thought out. allowing you to slide the rip fence forward or backwards to accommodate repeat length cuts (or tenoning) using the mitre fence (to reduce the kick back risk). But I don't think I would value those enhancements over the Xcalibur to the tune of £1000.

You know I find it absolutely incredible that those simple and yet highly prized extra features (left tilt, longer arbor, decent rip fence etc) appear to be the sole proprietary of this Delta Unisaw clone. You really would think the saw manufacturers would have honed this product design to the nth degree given how long its been in the market and how clear the list of requirements is. I mean its not flippin rocket science is it?? They only had to see how popular NYW was 22 years ago to realise that a few changes to their saws might make them leap ahead of the competition!

It really amazes me how basically "asleep" some of these product design teams must be to fail to spot the glaring opportunity in the table saw market.

 

[Richard S]

Except mainstream manufacturers are not really interested in the hobby trade, it makes up such a small part of the market that can be almost completely satisfied by existing product lines as to make the investment in developing an esoteric product line completely financially unviable. What demand there is leaves just enough business to be satisfied by niche suppliers such as Woodford Woodworking Machines. Basic economics I'm afraid.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I had a look on the Axminster site but couldn't find the saw being discussed. What did you search under? I tried, Table saw, Tablesaw, Sawbench, and Bench saw.

Anyone assist?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Its this one...sort of pitched against Sedgewicks for professional use. In the flesh its very meaty. Nice. But almost certainly too expensive for hobby use.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-in ... tomsection

 

[Jacob]

Did I imagine somebody mentioning having a table saw blade with a flat tooth profile that cut a kerf of about 6mm? They mentioned using it for cutting grooves, effectively like a dado set, but only a single blade.

Any ideas where I could get one? Blade size not that important- it wont be needed for deep work. Arbour 30mm.

Thanks
Mark

It's sometimes called a wobble saw. Quite common. Strictly speaking its for a spindle but can work on a TS if it fits. Two push sticks and guarding absolutely essential as it can be a bit of a finger chopper.

There's one here which cuts from 3.5 to 18mm. I've got one similar which is excellent.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Except mainstream manufacturers are not really interested in the hobby trade, it makes up such a small part of the market that can be almost completely satisfied by existing product lines as to make the investment in developing an esoteric product line completely financially unviable. What demand there is leaves just enough business to be satisfied by niche suppliers such as Woodford Woodworking Machines. Basic economics I'm afraid.

You're probably right Roger. I wonder what the annualised revenues for the hobby saw market in the UK/Europe are?

It just strikes me that given you have Record Power, Axy, Woodford (Xcalibur), SIP, Charnwood etc etc etc ad nauseum (and I realise many of these are badged clones so not that many original designs)....all competing in the same space. Then clearly some investment is/was worth it and there is a business model in that market. I cant imagine the necessary investment to make one or two (relatively small lets face it) changes that would make a dramatic difference to the competitiveness of the saw are not worth it.

In fact, Axy quite frequently update the design of their standard TS which is clearly a far Eastern beast. They tend to implement small incremental improvements which clearly don't kill their R&D budget. All I'm whining about is why doesn't someone like Axy that probably gets the lions share of the UK TS business.....clone the Unisaw like Xcalibur have. Left tilt...longer arbor...switch on the side....decent fence. Not that difficult really. I'm sure if they pitched it £50 below the competition they would clean up.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Thanks Bob for identifying the saw at Axminster. Although similar to the Delta in style I think it is let down by the fence system and personally i prefer the fixed left wing ( I guess not an issue if you have acres of space for the sliding table) I am a big fan of the US style cabinet saws, in fact I have a DEFT which is a rebadged Laguna. I had a job to get hold of it but wished there was a larger selection of this type of saw with the accessories you have already menmtioned, or even have access to them as accessories.

 

[Myfordman]

Did I imagine somebody mentioning having a table saw blade with a flat tooth profile that cut a kerf of about 6mm? They mentioned using it for cutting grooves, effectively like a dado set, but only a single blade.

Any ideas where I could get one? Blade size not that important- it wont be needed for deep work. Arbour 30mm.

Thanks
Mark

It's sometimes called a wobble saw. Quite common. Strictly speaking its for a spindle but can work on a TS if it fits. Two push sticks and guarding absolutely essential as it can be a bit of a finger chopper.

There's one here which cuts from 3.5 to 18mm. I've got one similar which is excellent.

I bought a FTG (flat top ground) blade from Doug at cutting solutions - a member of this parish.
It has a 4mm kerf and gives a flat bottom groove/dado and readily widened by repeat cuts. useful when I can't be ar8ed to set up the dado stack.
The wobble saw mentioned by Jacob gives a curved bottom groove which in certain applications can remain visible and not good for quality work.

MM

 

[Jacob]

....y Jacob gives a curved bottom groove which in certain applications can remain visible and not good for quality work.

MM

The radius of the curve is quite large (same as the radius of the blade) and flat enough not to be noticed in the bottom of a slot. Some of them are designed to remove even this tiny deviation from the flat.

 

[The Bear]

MM (Bob?)

That sounds interesting. I too can rarely be bothered to set up the dado stack. How does that blade perform in different material? Eg hard and soft wood both with and along the grain and ply and mdf. I'm thinking of the cleaness of the edges of the cut.

Mark

 

[PAC1]

Felder do a grooving saw blade. I have one it is 5mm wide and 300mm dia I think there is also a 250mm version