Table saw advice?
- Thread starter steve355
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Orraloon
Established Member
Running really short pieces through a table saw is something I have never been comfortable doing even after being around tablesaws most of my life. Better to leave the wood longer for the cut then trim to length after. Other safe way is with the work stuck to a sled.
Regards
John
TomGW
Established Member
You have asked a couple of times for blade suggestions and I have been very happy with Freud blades - a good range available.
I would certainly like to see a sturdier, heavier base to give stability to your saw - it would appear to be top heavy which can't help the vibration problem.
From one of your responses it would seem that you have a welder and can weld. As the fence is one of your issues I would suggest that you look at this as a potential solution. A fair bit of work involved but basically simple to execute and results in an accurate and sturdy fence.
I would certainly like to see a sturdier, heavier base to give stability to your saw - it would appear to be top heavy which can't help the vibration problem.
From one of your responses it would seem that you have a welder and can weld. As the fence is one of your issues I would suggest that you look at this as a potential solution. A fair bit of work involved but basically simple to execute and results in an accurate and sturdy fence.
pgrbff
Established Member
2) Finish. I need a really clean finish on the cuts, but I get some saw marks. I’ve tried a rip blade and a fine toothed blade (also vintage!) but it isn’t good enough. Is there a blade I can get or a technique I can use to get a great finish.
I have an old Startrite. I thought a better blade would help but it turned out my fence wasn't perfectly parallel to the blade.
I have an old Startrite. I thought a better blade would help but it turned out my fence wasn't perfectly parallel to the blade.
Thanks for all the nuggets of advice, very helpful.
I have fixed the vertical blade movement problem on the saw. I’ve improved the vibration and I’m sure I can improve it further. Looking at modern saws, the trunnions are attached to the table these days, rather than the chassis. That seems a good improvement.
The cast iron fence itself is solid as anything. It’s the guide rail that’s the problem. It’s hardly flimsy, being a 1”x1/2” steel rod, but it can flex by a fraction of a millimetre. I can fix this by adding a set screw.
To be honest, there is one feature that I haven’t mentioned that leads me to want to ditch the saw, and that’s the tilting table. When cutting an angle, gravity helps the workpiece fall towards the blade. With the riving knife in, this may be theoretically safe (or not) , but frankly scares the **** out of me. Aside from that I’m sure I can make it a useful and accurate saw.
Two options then, work around it or raid family savings buy a new saw. I’ve looked at the Axminster workshop saws but to me they look cheaply made, and overpriced. The Laguna looks absolutely amazing but it’s way too big. Shame. A Makita or similar might be ok but it’s a Jobsite saw.
I am not looking to be a machine tool woodworker, generally speaking I’m interested in hand tools. Which is partly why I’m reluctant to spend loads on a fancy table saw. But sometimes the apprentice isn’t available to help chopping up wood and so they are useful.
To work around the tilting table, I can potentially make a sled (as suggested above) that places the workpiece at an angle rather than the blade. This might actually be quite a good scheme. I’ve made sleds for it before, and I can 3d print an accurate tilting cradle for the plane blank to sit on the sled. I might have a go at this today.
I have fixed the vertical blade movement problem on the saw. I’ve improved the vibration and I’m sure I can improve it further. Looking at modern saws, the trunnions are attached to the table these days, rather than the chassis. That seems a good improvement.
The cast iron fence itself is solid as anything. It’s the guide rail that’s the problem. It’s hardly flimsy, being a 1”x1/2” steel rod, but it can flex by a fraction of a millimetre. I can fix this by adding a set screw.
To be honest, there is one feature that I haven’t mentioned that leads me to want to ditch the saw, and that’s the tilting table. When cutting an angle, gravity helps the workpiece fall towards the blade. With the riving knife in, this may be theoretically safe (or not) , but frankly scares the **** out of me. Aside from that I’m sure I can make it a useful and accurate saw.
Two options then, work around it or raid family savings buy a new saw. I’ve looked at the Axminster workshop saws but to me they look cheaply made, and overpriced. The Laguna looks absolutely amazing but it’s way too big. Shame. A Makita or similar might be ok but it’s a Jobsite saw.
I am not looking to be a machine tool woodworker, generally speaking I’m interested in hand tools. Which is partly why I’m reluctant to spend loads on a fancy table saw. But sometimes the apprentice isn’t available to help chopping up wood and so they are useful.
To work around the tilting table, I can potentially make a sled (as suggested above) that places the workpiece at an angle rather than the blade. This might actually be quite a good scheme. I’ve made sleds for it before, and I can 3d print an accurate tilting cradle for the plane blank to sit on the sled. I might have a go at this today.
I think that’s likely in my case.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Put the fence to the left of the blade? You'd have to modify the fixing or make a spare one.
Ideally for precision the fence needs to be as high as the workpiece.
Also I'd fix a block behind at the far end to keep it square against the table and as location for the G clamp back from the face.
Squiggle of candle-wax on bed and fence also helps.
Good thought, I had the same one. Sadly, it doesn’t work. The fence will indeed go to the left side of the blade. But the blade is then pointing in the wrong direction for the cuts I need to make. I’d have to draw a diagram to explain and you’d see what I mean.
Something like this has a small footprint (the aftermarket fence rail could be saw down to suit)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186311100042?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186311100042?
@Jacob actually rethinking it you might be onto something.
You can see from this pic why the left side of the fence doesn’t work. The 2nd and third cuts are inaccessible.
On the right side of the blade, you can see how the cuts work.
However, it’s the first cut with the high blade, thats the really scary, dangerous cut. The 2nd and 3rd cuts are much lighter, almost nibbling cuts.
But…. There’s nothing to say that the first cut can’t be done on the lower side, and then switch the fence over to the higher side for the 2nd and 3rd. That’s what your comment caused me to rethink.
I realised that for what I want to do, modern table saws may not work at all. The blade on modern saws tilts in the other direction. The Charnwood one in Tom’s post I don’t think would work.
What a load of fuss for a few seemingly simple table saw cuts!
You can see from this pic why the left side of the fence doesn’t work. The 2nd and third cuts are inaccessible.
However, it’s the first cut with the high blade, thats the really scary, dangerous cut. The 2nd and 3rd cuts are much lighter, almost nibbling cuts.
But…. There’s nothing to say that the first cut can’t be done on the lower side, and then switch the fence over to the higher side for the 2nd and 3rd. That’s what your comment caused me to rethink.
I realised that for what I want to do, modern table saws may not work at all. The blade on modern saws tilts in the other direction. The Charnwood one in Tom’s post I don’t think would work.
What a load of fuss for a few seemingly simple table saw cuts!
Attachments
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Do they? Mine tilts to the right just like yours, except your table tilts left instead. I guess Tom's tilts right too, judging by the bulge in the left hand side of the case, to accommodate the whole mechanism swinging over to the left.
Worth it to get it sorted!
Fair enough, I have never owned one, the video of the Laguna I was watching this morning showed theirs tilting to the right so I assumed they all did!
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Table tilting to left (like yours) is same as blade tilting to right (like mine and most of them I think).
Sgian Dubh
Established Member
Looking at the image you posted below my thoughts turned immediately to how a spindle moulder plus a rebate block might be the ideal choice. If the moulder didn't have a tilting spindle an angled sled could be made to present the wood, which would work well if the stepped rebates you need are the same every time. If you use different angles then you'd need to make angled sleds to present the wood, or use a spindle moulder with a tilting spindle, but those moulders are more expensive.
I appreciate that you may not have the funds and perhaps nor the volume of work for even a small single phase second hand spindle moulder plus tooling, and maybe not the space either. Slainte.
I appreciate that you may not have the funds and perhaps nor the volume of work for even a small single phase second hand spindle moulder plus tooling, and maybe not the space either. Slainte.
TomGW
Established Member
If you are seriously considering buying a new (to you) saw I would add a SIP 01332 to the list for consideration. I bought a very lightly used one a few years ago for £500 and have been pleased with it. The blade tilts to the right.
You mean like on this £8k professional panel saw its wrong ?
Actually I cant really remember the rules, but for the fence to be set back so its just clear of the teeth,l seem to remember that was the set up for cross cutting, so cut pieces wouldn't jamb up as you cut one after the other, after the other. each time the next to be cut would push the last one out the way.
Last big professional saw I used was a sedgwick 450, and the fence on that was a long one. I think that went all the way to the back. That said Im not sure it was original and we mostly(but not always) used it for board material. And only ripping. cross cuts were on one of the bigger radial arm saws
Cabinetman
Established Member
Yes, a fence like that is wrong, as it is on my SCM delivered yesterday!
Sedgwick- on my one the fence is only held at the near end and can be slid back to the correct length, as you said that’s invaluable when crosscutting.
A short fence isn’t a problem at all, simply keep holding the wood to be cut against it and after the cut the wood can twist and move all it wants. Much better than the wood flying back at you.
Ian
Sedgwick- on my one the fence is only held at the near end and can be slid back to the correct length, as you said that’s invaluable when crosscutting.
A short fence isn’t a problem at all, simply keep holding the wood to be cut against it and after the cut the wood can twist and move all it wants. Much better than the wood flying back at you.
Ian
Adam W.
A Major Clanger
Those things look like they are for panel products though.
