Support the Dale Farm Travellers

[Digit]

Now now Rog, don't be unreasonable, let's all sign Jacob's petition, I'm sure it will influence the courts, the county council, uncle Tom Cobley an' all.

Roy.

 

[Jacob]

Christ, Jacob. You remind me of my 87 year old mother. She's never wrong, either. She witters and talks boll*cks incessantly as well.

Sounds like my kinda gurl!

 

[Lons]

There's enough cr*p being dumped to build an enormous manure heap. It's coming from one source who is either very deluded or is a real sh*t stirrer :lol: :lol: :lol:
Probably sitting there, casting the lines and waiting for the bites (this being one). #-o

 

[paultnl]

As has been previously said, the biggest problem is that the local authority were too slow to enforce the law when it was originally broken. The only solution now is to go in so mob handed that no violence is possible, hence the big price tag.

I am all for a multi-culture society, but not at the price of losing the rule of law. If you wish to live in this country you must obey the law. If you do not like the law you have democratic rights to get it changed if you can get enough people to agree with you.

Living in East Anglia I have witnessed the “Traveler Effect”, increase in metal theft, burglaries, car crime etc. and know that this is nothing to do with “cultural differences” it is purely criminal behavior by a minority who think the law does not apply to them unless they are using it to thwart the lawful endeavors of the local authority.

Those of us in the fixed community are rightly met with a zero tolerance policy to law breaking, why should Travelers / Immigrants / Daily Mail Hate Group of the day not have the same treatment?

 

[Lons]

This isn't about the travellers but some of it applies.

This guy says everything I'd like to - interesting that the link was sent to me from a contact in New Zealand - says a lot about the UK being the laughing stock of the world.

Bet it gets the "do gooders" juices flowing :wink:

http://dotsub.com/view/6474921d-8943-44 ... 62aa3b3e54

Bob

 

[RogerS]

This isn't about the travellers but some of it applies.

This guy says everything I'd like to - interesting that the link was sent to me from a contact in New Zealand - says a lot about the UK being the laughing stock of the world.

Bet it gets the "do gooders" juices flowing :wink:

http://dotsub.com/view/6474921d-8943-44 ... 62aa3b3e54

Bob

Yes..everything this guy says is simply common-sense.

 

[MIGNAL]

The guy talks absolute junk. Another on his soap box who knows naff all. He wants water canon, tear gas for rioters, yet ALL the experts who have real experience of similar situations stated that those measures would have been completely ineffective. Yet somehow he sits there and thinks he has all the solutions.
He wants more Police and specifically more trained in Riot control. Yes. pay more taxes. If you aren't prepared to do so then don't complain about lack of Police bodies.

 

[RogerS]

The guy talks absolute junk. Another on his soap box who knows naff all. He wants water canon, tear gas for rioters, yet ALL the experts who have real experience of similar situations stated that those measures would have been completely ineffective. ......

Really?

An early supporter of the tactic was Ken Livingstone, the former London mayor, who said he agreed that police should allowed to start using the cannon to disperse rioters. He said: “The issue of water cannon would be very useful given the level of arson we are seeing here.”

John O’Connor, a former Flying Squad commander at Scotland Yard, said that in “some cases” water cannon use was necessary.

Conservative MP Patrick Mercer, a former army officer, called for the police to be allowed to use water cannon, saying he had used such technology and found it "extremely effective".

Dr Peter Shirlow, a human geographer and public order expert at Queen's University Belfast, agrees that such kit can be a very useful way of containing rioters who are scattered across wide open spaces by directing them into a specific area.

And that's only after a very quick skim through Google.

 

[Digit]

As for the poor dears having no where else to go, in view of the judgement that Councils must publish a list of all empty properties within their Bailiewick I would suggest they will be able to pick and chose.
Apparently the Irish Government has had enough of the 'Travellers' and have been making life more difficult for them, hence the recent upsurge here.
The ROI government has also taken action recently against immigrants occupying round abouts etc.

Roy.

 

[MIGNAL]

We can discount Mr.Livingstone and the Tory MP - unless they have any real expertise in the matter? At the time of the riots the press interviewed two former senior officers, both had long experience in riot control Northern Ireland. Water canon, tear gas can be very effective against mass crowds. The type of rioting we saw was more akin to many random groups who were separately looting/ committing violent acts. I distinctly remember one of those senior officers stating that the use of that type of riot control (under those circumstances) would more likely put Police officers in greater danger.

 

[Digit]

would more likely put Police officers in greater danger.

Which would suggest that the police believed rioters were prepared to use violence to continue with their burglary, plus the fact that if they were 'random groups' would suggest that making a 'protest' was not the object.
Theft was.

Roy.

 

[gnu]

Not many of them will pay income tax but will probably pay VAT when they buy fuel, commercial vehicles etc.
Also I doubt that many will be claiming state benefits wheres about a quarter of settled households are workless. I think the state would like it that they travelling community become better educated and can earn their way respectably rather than living illegally on the margins and being involved in criminal rogue trading type activity. The old romantic view of gypies at the roadside whittling dolly pegs and making willow creels are long gone. The travellers notoriety has impacted on people like motorhomers who find it difficult to find overnight stops and carparks often have height barriers. It will be interesting to see how events unfold now the eviction notices have been handed out. It is turning into a bit of a media circus which won't help matters.

 

[Digit]

The travellers notoriety has impacted on people like motorhomers who find it difficult to find overnight stops and carparks

Also on Gypsies I might add.

Roy.

 

[Digit]

buying land, and building entirely with their own money, but bogged down by red tape, regulations and bureaucracy

Sounds familiar, isn't that same for the rest of us?

Roy.

 

[henton49er]

Support the Dale Farm travellers? No ..... no .... and HELL, NO!!!

These people always know their legal rights but never accept their moral responsibilities. They do not deserve our respect or support until they do.

Mike

 

[Digit]

Doesn't look as though Jacob is having much joy does it?

Roy.

 

[Jacob]

buying land, and building entirely with their own money, but bogged down by red tape, regulations and bureaucracy

Sounds familiar, isn't that same for the rest of us?

Roy.

You've missed the point Digit.
Bogged down by red tape, regulations and bureaucracy whilst going about trying to do something constructive with their own money, should make them natural allies of the right as a whole. Why aren't they getting support from the free-market, de-regulation lobby i.e. most of the Tory party?
The tories are trying to de-regulate planning procedures even as we speak. They should be with the travellers manning the barricades - united we stand, divided we fall!

To answer my own question - the right want free market, de-regulation, less red tape, business opportunities, but not for everybody, especially travellers, foreigners, all the usual suspects, and, probably, you and me.
If it had been a property developer wanting to build on this same eyesore of an old scrap yard, they would have been up in arms for it.

 

[Digit]

To answer your question Jacob, 'cos they are in breach of the law!

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

We can discount Mr.Livingstone and the Tory MP - unless they have any real expertise in the matter? At the time of the riots the press interviewed two former senior officers, both had long experience in riot control Northern Ireland. Water canon, tear gas can be very effective against mass crowds. The type of rioting we saw was more akin to many random groups who were separately looting/ committing violent acts. I distinctly remember one of those senior officers stating that the use of that type of riot control (under those circumstances) would more likely put Police officers in greater danger.

Don't be too quick to dismiss Livingstone as during his time as Mayor he will have faced similar problems and taken professional advice. Mercer has used the stuff and found it highly effective.

My point was that in your original post you said ALL...in capital letters....and that is certainly not the case. So far I've quoted four experts in favour and you've referred to two.

I think that makes it Roger 4 : Mignal 2 :wink:

 

[Digit]

Jacob said ...

I get the impression that a lot of DM reader types never encounter other ideas at all

...so which newspapers do you read Jacob?

A high profile supporter, with with a real toffee nose (unlike some of the 'wanna be's on here) and the silver spoon from her infancy to boot, doing something for others instead of gobbling up all she can get 'from' others.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source ... RQ&cad=rja

Doesn't seem she did any more than get her photo in the press, no mention of solid assistance. Will she be there when the bull dozers move in I wonder?


Roy.