Suggestions for tools for a tiny workshop?

[pooka]

Alf, thanks for the advice - hmm, a 14" bandsaw (the little kid in me loves that idea - bigger, stronger, faster! The adult in me will look into the options available here and see if I can fit a 14" into the space that I have). The prospect of being able to relay on hand tools instead of the P/T really does appeal to me, and as you say I may be over-estimating the effort involved in accurately planing a board down to my required dimension. I currently have a LN #4 bench plane, a Stanley #5 plane in need of work (my father inherited it from an uncle and it has been neglected for a while), a LV medium-sized shoulder plane, and a couple of block planes - could you recommend what I should add to that, if anything (blind optimism on my part by suggesting that my current collection might be enough, but I live in hope ), if I were to opt for doing all planing by hand rather than buying a P/T?

Shady, thanks a lot for that, and for the links. In particular, I think I'll investigate the fine air cleaner options as the prospect of spending even more time round the house with the vacuum cleaner and a duster is not appealing at all.

 

[pooka]

Err, it just occurs to me that when I refer to a 12" or 14" bandsaw, I may not actually be talking about what I think I am talking about ...if you get me. Specifically, I am presuming that the 12"/14" is a measure of the maximum depth of cut, rather than the throat capacity of the bandsaw - is that correct?

 

[Chris Knight]

Pooka, those measurements generally refer to the throat - not the depth of cut which is usually a lot less - about 7-8 inches for a 14" bandsaw.

 

[Alf]

I currently have a LN #4 bench plane, a Stanley #5 plane in need of work (my father inherited it from an uncle and it has been neglected for a while), a LV medium-sized shoulder plane, and a couple of block planes - could you recommend what I should add to that, if anything (blind optimism on my part by suggesting that my current collection might be enough, but I live in hope ), if I were to opt for doing all planing by hand rather than buying a P/T?

Umm, something longer I think. A #7 or woodie equivalent, particularly for jointing edges. Maybe invest in Rob Cosman's "Rough to Ready" video for some inspiration to see it can be done. (You can do fine without a scrub though; the bandsaw can take care of sizeable stock reduction and often leave usable pieces of "waste"). It occurs to me it might be worth considering just a thickness planer; it doesn't take much space, and means you only have to do serious hand planing effort on one face. Just a thought.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Shady]

Alf's right: one of the 'thicknesser only' jobs might be the way to go - I believe they're designed, in some cases, for site work, with carrying handles - so you could wait for a fine day (might be a long time coming, in Dublin :wink: ), and do the coarse stock prep outside...

A combi P/T is a much, much bigger and heavier beast.. (mine's about 200 kilos - had to use a hoist and the volvo to manoeuvre it into position in the garage...)

With that thicknesser and a well tuned bandsaw, you can bring wood to a very acceptable 'start point' for the final work with hand tools... Certainly enough to turn the final trueing into a pleasure rather than a chore, if your tools are sharp... Being a saddo, I always like watching the dull and rough sawn/machine planed surface begin to change colour and gleam as the hand planes get a workout.

 

[pooka]

Thanks Chris. Yikes, that is a reminder for me to double-check things before making assumptions which prove to be completely wrong!

Alf, that is a useful suggestion regarding opting for a thicknesser only. I had originally started out with the idea of getting just something like the DW733, but as I thought about it more I started to think that a planer would be very useful too and started to explore P/T's. You are right though, if I was capable of successfully planing (one side of) a board flat by hand then a thicknesser could take care of the remaining donkey work, and would use less space (actually, a recent FWW article showed someone utilising a sled to effectively use their thicknesser as a planer, which could be an option if my hand planing were a complete disaster). Thanks for the suggestion re the plane and video too - I'll look into those.

 

[pooka]

Shady, I see that you are familiar with Dublin weather The combination of a bandsaw and thicknesser is one that I will definitely consider - the money saved by going for a thicknesser, rather than a P/T, could well fund a bigger bandsaw too which could be beneficial (right now the bandsaw is certainly looking like a more appropriate choice for my current circumstances than a tablesaw - sheesh the whole business of working with wood is a decision minefield ).

 

[Aragorn]

Rexon do a small benchtop 6" surface planer. Might be worth having a lot at as well as the DW733?

 

[pooka]

Thanks for the suggestion Aragorn, and to everyone else for the very useful advice and suggestions.

 

[Shady]

Purely out of interest - you don't actually use a powered router indoors, do you???? :shock:

 

[pooka]

Hi Shady,
I have used a powered router indoors a few times (rainy days mainly). Usually I have had it hooked up to a beaten-up old vacuum cleaner, which helped a lot, but once or twice I used it without any dust extraction and what a mess! Every time though, I wear dust mask, ear protectors, and goggles (which invariably get steamed up, which is a real pain!).

I am hoping that, when I have put the finishing touches to my router table, which include hooking up my dust collector, that it will prove less of a dust generator.

 

[Shady]

Jeez: that's not a wife/girlfriend - that's a saintly being...

 

[StewieH]

Hi Pooka, a slightly off topic reply, regarding your steamed up goggles , i used to get really hacked off with mine steaming up until one day i mentioned them steaming up to my optician and his reply was to use a demisting spec cleaner on the inside face of the goggles ( why i didnt think of that myself i dont know!!) its a trick that also works for any other goggles and motorcycle helmet lenses too!!

regards ,

Stu.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Stu

Welcome to the forum, good to have you onboard.

Cheers
Neil

 

[pooka]

Thanks for the suggestion Stu. I'll give that a try - it has to be better than stopping everything, trying to find a clean area of sweatshirt to wipe the lens with, dripping sweat into the lens just when you thought you were ready to start again, etc.

...I think I'll try it with my cycling sunglasses too, 'cos steamed up sunglasses and a tricky descent are not the happiest combination (a combination which is close friends with collisions and lost skin!) :shock:

 

[Midnight]

pooka...

seems you and I are afflicted with the same limitations; my shop's a mere 7 1/2 x 11 1/2 ft and has to store my stock too...

When I started out, I didn't know any better; years of watching Norm left me convinced that power tools was the way to go. I subsequently bought the biggest I could afford, rapidly learning that it didn't take too many power tools to fill the shop to the point where it was simply impossible to work..

Additionally... I learned that the limitations of my power tools left me highly restricted in what I could design and build...

I'll cut a long story short by saying that I've switched almost completely to hand tools; the jointer and now even the thicknesser have been retired... I don't need em... Starting with rough sawn stock, I end up with better quality dimensioned stock than at any time when I relied on power tools alone. Additionally, because I'm not generating any dust I spend less time cleaning the shop; shavings always go downwards rather than all over the place...

Materials wise, I've 2 more ply based projects to build before I switch to working exclusively with hardwoods...

As for what I build, I've never made a box, seldom made anything that wasn't so big that moving it was a 2 man lift, the last major project being a queen sized bed in oak and elm...

I've found a way around my shop limitations that works for me; it's taken time, a bunch of mistakes and a lot of patience. Hand tools give me the capacity to really unleash my imagination when it comes to project design because I'm free of having to work inside the capacities of the machines... Granted I need to put a lot more effort into it, but I get far more enjoyment out of it too...

 

[Noel]

Pooka, check out your nearest motorcycle shop. They should have a good selection of anti-condensation stuff. Bell (as in helmets) used to do "Anti-Fog" spray on stuff. Worked very well on helmet visors.

Rgds

Noel

PS Yip, they still do, although not branded as Bell:
http://www.thebellstore.com/Accessor/variclear.html

Noel

 

[pooka]

Midnight - I would really like to achieve the level of skill with hand tools that would allow me to reliably joint and thickness stock without having to incur the noise, dust, and lack of space, that seem unavoidable with machinery. Did it take you a long time to achieve that level of skill? Also, have your skills with hand tools allowed you to avoid having to resort to a bandsaw or table saw for resawing or initial dimensioning of wood?

Noel - Thanks, I pass by a couple of motorcycle shops each day on my way to work. I have always wanted to have a closer look at the bikes (when it boils right down to it, two wheels have more appeal for me than four ), so your suggestions gives me a valid excuse to drop in! The challenge will be to avoid arriving home on a self-propelled two-wheeler, having left earlier on my trusty mountain bike :shock:

 

[Midnight]

Did it take you a long time to achieve that level of skill?

Remember them lessons I talked about?? Mistakes I made..?? Buying tools that weren't fit for purpose was the first one... Modern Stanleys might be fine if you're a joiner working with softwoods, but for hardwood... ferget it... I couldn't tell if the probs I had were caused by poor tool or bad technique...
Buying my first "fit for purpose" plane was a revelation... I knew the tool was up to the job; making the technique adjustments was a breeze from there on in...
Learning to sharpen was my biggest fear initially... easily conquered with one of Rob's honing guides.. impossible to go wrong with one of them..

To begin with, I focused on getting the boards from rough sawn to "in the ballpark" with the hand planes, using the thicknesser to true up the opposite face before flipping back to the first face to tidy it up a bit... As my collection slowly built and technique improved I soon got to the point where I'd produce better quality by hand than the thicknesser... so its use was cut back to getting the opposite face nearly down to size before finishing with hand tools...
The addition of a proper smoother relegated my sander to working with ply only...
Buying a proper scrub plane cut shaping time by about 80%.. Finally having the ability to hog off the worst of the waste really quickly rendered the thicknesser all but redundant, a point proven when it took a mere half hour to scribe and plane to the line on the opposite face the first time I tried it.....

There's no real need to try to buy every plane you'll need all at once, but learn from my mistakes; buy the best you can afford and let the tool and board teach you where you're going wrong... once you give it a try you'll see what I mean... As for learning technique... I honestly never realised when I had the right technique... I simply stopped when the board looked right...

Also, have your skills with hand tools allowed you to avoid having to resort to a bandsaw or table saw for resawing or initial dimensioning of wood?

To be honest.. I've only resawn with a bandsaw once; I don't own one... Planing to thickness took far less time than I thought it would... building up the nerve to give it a try took far longer....

To begin with, work on getting a good scrub plane, a good jack plane, a jointer and a damn good smoother... all of em will pay for themselves real quickly if you intend to work with rough sawn stock...

 

[Steve James]

Hi all

Pooka, have you got a yard or garden in which you would be able to do all the "messy" stuff?
Surely this is better than making a real mess in the house?
If the spare room is that small, any machines would spew out shavings and sawdust which will either hang in the air or get trodden everywhere.
As for tools, you don't really need anything other than hand tools, but....
A decent table saw, planer thicknesser etc will make the job far easier and quicker, As long as you have the experience (Skill !) to use them.
The notion that you can produce better results with hand tools is one I disagree with, if this was the case joinery shops worldwide would not be full to the brim with such machines!
Although time is obviously a factor.
I also don't feel that anyone "needs" anything other than a stanley plane, chisel etc.
There have been literally thousands of apprentices who have been taught their trade with such equipment.
I personally have worked on banks, goverment buildings and major shopfits for well over 20 nearer 30yrs, and have never seen one of these exotic planes used on any job!
Putting the time in is what counts, paying your dues, there are no short cuts. Practise anything and you will get better and that includes joinery.
Just my tuppence worth.

Steve