Struggling to plane stock square

[BluegillUK]

Hiya guys,

I thought I was having a good weekend, learning to use the plane and everything and today I've hit a bit of a snag. To put it in to context, I salvaged some old Sapele window frames as I thought I would be able to use the wood. I sawed off the bits that I thought would be useful and planed them so they were smooth (not square, yet). That was yesterday and I was over the moon that I had managed to turn some ropey window frame into some nice looking pieces of wood (see below)

https://ibb.co/ceQWy5
https://ibb.co/jFbh5k

Anyway, fast forward to today and my aim was to get them so they're square all round. I didn't think it was going to be easy but I didn't think it would be quite so challenging. I flattened my first reference face, probably the easiest one obviously! I got my square out and put it up against the reference face and needed to remove a little material from the right hand side, and so I did and managed to get that side square quite easily. But the third face!!!! I battled with it for night on half an hour and I gave up before I lobbed it through a window and I've come to sit down and sulk and seek advice. Every time I had a high point, I managed to shave it off, but then there were high points in other places and logic kept going out of the window.

So here I am now, cooling off, hoping someone can give me some pointers.

By the way, if I have a bit of stock that I want to square up, that's tapered but I want it to be rectangular, do I need to mark out the dimensions I want the wood to be using a mortice gauge or pencil?

 

[deema]

It's very difficult to achieve 4 square, each time you move to a new side, any errors accumulate. Normally the focus is on achieving two references sides square and true and then only if required to thickness the other two sides to the the two reference sides. This is normally done with a marking gauge and scribing all around the side to be thicknessed. When planing down the the scribe line as you 'hit' it you will see the shaving edge change allowing you to know you have arrived at the required thickness. For a lot if work, only one or two sides of the wood are visible, the 'old' ways were to only do what was necessary.

 

[JohnPW]

Also check for wind or twist. Could also draw pencil lines across the surface then mark the high points to show where you are taking shavings. May be take thinner shavings if you find the high points become low points too quickly.

 

[jlawford]

I'm no expert, but regarding the last question, if you get a flat and twist free face, then an edge that is square to that, you then register a gauge off those sides to create parallel lines on the other sides. This then gives you definitive lines to plane down to. Use the gauge to give your finished dimension so you just do it once.

 

[AJB Temple]

When doing this by hand I use winding sticks and I slide one along and mark with chalk to show the high spots. Take very fine amounts off when near square and check often.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I'm no expert, but regarding the last question, if you get a flat and twist free face, then an edge that is square to that, you then register a gauge off those sides to create parallel lines on the other sides. This then gives you definitive lines to plane down to. Use the gauge to give your finished dimension so you just do it once.

The above is spot on. Once you have a face and an edge you no longer need the square for reference just work to gauge lines from your good sides. In most applications it doesn't really matter if the other two sides are slightly off as all referencing for joints etc should be done from the face and edge. In the days of machines this is still advisable, but not quite so critical.

 

[ED65]

By the way, if I have a bit of stock that I want to square up, that's tapered but I want it to be rectangular, do I need to mark out the dimensions I want the wood to be using a mortice gauge or pencil?

You do want to mark out to thickness and width with a gauge for a couple of reasons. You can darken the gauged lines with a pencil to make them easier to see (just run the tip of the pencil down the groove, it should follow it well enough) but pencil marks alone shouldn't be used for this as a rule.

You obviously have an idea of how to square up stock since you were following a good plan, just ran into an issue. But how many read-throughs have you given to descriptions of the process, or look-throughs of a video of someone demonstrating it? It's worth going through it multiple times to make sure there aren't aspects you didn't hoist in first time, as even subtle details might trip you up.

You'll get there, the fact that you managed to flatten the first face successfully and then square an edge to it is a very good start. Some people struggle to do just the first of those!

 

[jlawford]

I'm no expert, but regarding the last question, if you get a flat and twist free face, then an edge that is square to that, you then register a gauge off those sides to create parallel lines on the other sides. This then gives you definitive lines to plane down to. Use the gauge to give your finished dimension so you just do it once.

The above is spot on. Once you have a face and an edge you no longer need the square for reference just work to gauge lines from your good sides. In most applications it doesn't really matter if the other two sides are slightly off as all referencing for joints etc should be done from the face and edge. In the days of machines this is still advisable, but not quite so critical.

Also just remembered about always referencing off face side and edge for all subsequent joinery layout.

Working this was should guarantee square shoulders on tenons, for example, even if the wood as a whole is not 100% perfect.

 

[BluegillUK]

Thanks for all of the responses- I feel a little better now having had a bite to eat and a rest.

The pieces of wood I am cutting are for a stool I'm making and so it's important that they square up side by side for gluing. I want to get them so there's no gaps between the pieces, then plane the top and bottom flush when the glue up is done. So really, it's more important that the sides are 100% straight as opposed to the faces. Any tips for that or shall I just keep at it, testing them for square and putting them together?

 

[dzj]

If it's for a glue-up, clamp 2 pieces together and joint their edges in one go.
As for planing/ thicknessing, there are videos on YT that show how to make a tapering/ thicknessing jig for hand planes.

 

[BluegillUK]

If it's for a glue-up, clamp 2 pieces together and joint their edges in one go.
As for planing/ thicknessing, there are videos on YT that show how to make a tapering/ thicknessing jig for hand planes.

Sorry, I may be being dozy, but if the two edges aren't sitting together right, (i.e they don't both meet at a 90 degree angle) then how will clamping them together and planing the two make any difference? Surely that would be more likely to reveal the gap?

Tried again this evening but I basically managed to get carried away and plane far too much material off #-o It all goes in the memory bank though. It's my first actual project, so I'm going to go easy on myself and remember this is the point to make all of the mistakes which shape you in the future.

That's my excuse, anyway

 

[dzj]

This fellow explains it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZAaCaOJhkg

 

[BluegillUK]

This fellow explains it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZAaCaOJhkg

Ah I see, it was me bit a bit special and misinterpreting your post :lol:

That helped alot, thank you. Is this considered one of those acceptable shortcuts or as a beginner, should I take the time to learn?

 

[dzj]

I think most people glue up panels in such a way when using hand tools.
Developing technique is important, but it takes time and meanwhile it's nice to make something from time to time.

 

[Ttrees]

You need a flat surface for reference
You may be surprised how out of square and non flat you can be without one.
Have you been practicing stop shavings yet?
Or are you taking shavings the full length of the timber?
Rocking timber has two reference points.

You cant know where your going without knowing where you've been

Since you've two planes now, a cambered iron will help immensely

 

[BluegillUK]

You need a flat surface for reference
You may be surprised how out of square and non flat you can be without one.
Have you been practicing stop shavings yet?
Or are you taking shavings the full length of the timber?
Rocking timber has two reference points.

You cant know where your going without knowing where you've been

Since you've two planes now, a cambered iron will help immensely

The cabinet I am using as a workbench at the mo has a perfectly flat top. If I was working with longer boards, I would definitely be using it as a reference surface but as the wood I'm using is about 30cm in length, do you think I'll still be able to see if it's out a little?

All I have done so far is check for square on my reference face then mark the high points with pencil and try to take them off, but as I say, I don't seem to be able to dial in such a fine adjustment effectively. The iron is plenty sharp enough, it'll slice the hair off of my arm easily. I'm guessing it's harder to plane a smaller wood surface than it would be a large one as the plane would make complete contact with the surface area which technically should support it more?

 

[lurker]

Throwing the wood out of the window and sulking is a right of passage
You are nearly a master

 

[custard]

Squaring edges is all about the camber Bluegill, get that right and it's do-able (even though it takes a lot of practise to get really efficient and accurate at it) but if the plane iron camber isn't right then it's just a frustrating nightmare.

Experienced craftsmen often cherish and nurse the cambers on their irons. Understanding that basic fact explains an awful lot about woodworking. It's why bevel up planes aren't universally embraced amongst real cabinet makers, because managing the camber is much trickier with a bevel up plane than a bevel down. And craftsmen will re-grind an iron down to about a mill or less from the edge, but never past the edge, as they want to preserve that precious camber. That's why they hate nicking a plane iron, because then you have to grind out the edge and the camber is lost.

The best account I've ever read on setting up and using the camber for edge squaring is in one of David Charlesworth's books. It's the same way I learnt as a cabinet making apprentice and it's the same way generations of craftsmen have done the job. Bottom line is you need to get this technique thoroughly cracked in order to make any serious progress with hand tool, solid wood furniture making. If, despite practising, success still evades you then you could think about a planer/thicknesser or truing an edge with a router run along a straight edge. Neither technique yields results anywhere near as good as a correctly used hand plane, but if you're going to joint wood to make wider boards (which is something you absolutely need to do) then you must have some plan for getting the job done or your cabinet making endeavours will be dead in the water.

 

[woodbrains]

Squaring edges is all about the camber Bluegill, get that right and it's do-able (even though it takes a lot of practise to get really efficient and accurate at it) but if the plane iron camber isn't right then it's just a frustrating nightmare.

Experienced craftsmen often cherish and nurse the cambers on their irons. Understanding that basic fact explains an awful lot about woodworking. It's why bevel up planes aren't universally embraced amongst real cabinet makers, because managing the camber is much trickier with a bevel up plane than a bevel down. And craftsmen will re-grind an iron down to about a mill or less from the edge, but never past the edge, as they want to preserve that precious camber. That's why they hate nicking a plane iron, because then you have to grind out the edge and the camber is lost.

The best account I've ever read on setting up and using the camber for edge squaring is in one of David Charlesworth's books. It's the same way I learnt as a cabinet making apprentice and it's the same way generations of craftsmen have done the job. Bottom line is you need to get this technique thoroughly cracked in order to make any serious progress with hand tool, solid wood furniture making. If, despite practising, success still evades you then you could think about a planer/thicknesser or truing an edge with a router run along a straight edge. Neither technique yields results anywhere near as good as a correctly used hand plane, but if you're going to joint wood to make wider boards (which is something you absolutely need to do) then you must have some plan for getting the job done or your cabinet making endeavours will be dead in the water.

Hello,

It might be, if that is the technique the OP wants to use. And while i am not arguing the validity of the camber, clearly it works for many, it is not the only technique that works. I have never cambered my planes all my life, except a fraction on my smoothers. A straight across iron is easy to plane square edges with and the technique is easy to learn. In fact for a beginner, there is a problem it solves that a cambered plane can exassibate. It is easy move the plane in a diagonal as the plane moves along the timber's length, which can introduce a bit of wind into the edge. A straight across iron, set evenly in the plane, does not let this happen.

Cambered iron technique or otherwise, it is just about calmly analysing what is going on and correcting it, not getting all panicky and losing heart. Very sharp plane irons is a start, that will give you more controlled of the tool and allows thinner shavings which help remove the smallest amount when creeping up on that true edge.

Mike.

 

[Ttrees]

The cabinet I am using as a workbench at the mo has a perfectly flat top. If I was working with longer boards, I would definitely be using it as a reference surface but as the wood I'm using is about 30cm in length, do you think I'll still be able to see if it's out a little?
?

I highly highly, highly doubt that !
You need perfection to a fine tolerance if you want to reference off of it
What kind of a planing stop do you have ?

I know you have a surface plate ....
Have you mastered ONE surface, if you can do this your well on the way.
You should be able to try and rock it with no movement, then you should try pinch one end of the timber and see if you can see
if it either spins like a propeller (high in the middle, not what you want) or pivots from the other end (the very end)
So in essence you are aiming for two hollows, So little it is not visible to the naked eye
One along its length and one along the width.
The camber will put an end to the frustration.

Get yourself some kind of fire door or other composite that's rigid
It's a game changer
Tom