Straightening a ledge door

[RichardG]

I made a couple of large cupboard doors (1.8m) to try and match the existing pine Victorian doors in the house. Didn’t have much choice of wood during lockdown, stock issues and inability to hand sort. In the end I ordered a load of pine v-groove tongue and groove matching and picked the best to make the doors after conditioning the timber for 3 weeks inside the house. Now the doors are made and hung one door has really started to twist, I was expecting some twisting but one door is quite bad, about 25mm.

I‘ve clamped the door to try and take out the twist, which has helped, but was wondering about steaming using a wall paper stripper or spray wetting the wood and then let dry again? Alternatively perhaps a threaded tension bar corner to corner to pull out the twist?

At some point I’ll go searching reclamation yards to see if I can find a pair of old doors I can cut down and use but that could be sometime away and not always successful.

Any other suggestions, including throwing in in the wood burner!!

 

[thetyreman]

it looks like there's no diagonal bracing? if not that could be your reason why, it's critical to prevent it warping..

 

[RichardG]

I copied the existing style of doors, none of which have diagonal braces, but they were probably made out of better pine 150 years ago. Looking at the door with the hinges on the right it’s the bottom left corner that sticks out. Wouldn’t the brace have to go from that corner to make a difference, i.e. opposite to the traditional diagonal bracing?

 

[thetyreman]

I drew out two methods of bracing, the one with the tick is the method I'd use. I see what you mean though, you might not be able to fix the bottom left corner on the right door easily, but you might find adding a brace pulls it back in, it's worth a try!

The quality of pine does make a big difference as well! last year pine quality definitely dropped off a cliff, I've resorted to finding old doors search for pitch pine/doug fir doors on ebay, I think people started realising this in 2020 and they're going up in price because of it.

 

[Jacob]

Ledged and battened door should be fairly flexible and will sit tight as long as held in tight. You just need a barrel bolt or similar to hold it in at the sticking out corner.
Very unlikely to stay flat if they are just swinging free and not tightly latched into the frame when closed.
When you make them they shouldn't be clamped up tight or glued, and are best with nails, no screws, so they stay bendy and will conform to the opening.
Don't think bracing would necessarily help as these look like light doors.

 

[Doug71]

Is there a hot water tank in that cupboard, even if there isn't it looks like there are quite a few pipes, if it's a warm sealed space the wood could move around quite a bit.

 

[RichardG]

Ledged and battened door should be fairly flexible and will sit tight as long as held in tight. You just need a barrel bolt or similar to hold it in at the sticking out corner.
Very unlikely to stay flat if they are just swinging free and not tightly latched into the frame when closed.
When you make them they shouldn't be clamped up tight or glued, and are best with nails, no screws, so they stay bendy and will conform to the opening.
Don't think bracing would necessarily help as these look like light doors.

I used old style clenched nails and the timber is only 14mm so the doors should be able to flex and move. Holding the doors closed firmly makes a lot of sense, I’ll have to think how to achieve this as there’s no centre jam.

 

[RichardG]

Is there a hot water tank in that cupboard, even if there isn't it looks like there are quite a few pipes, if it's a warm sealed space the wood could move around quite a bit.

Yes, it’s an airing cupboard, hot water tank, heating pipes, pump.... so I think clamping the door firmly shuts makes even more sense.

 

[RichardG]

I drew out two methods of bracing, the one with the tick is the method I'd use. I see what you mean though, you might not be able to fix the bottom left corner on the right door easily, but you might find adding a brace pulls it back in, it's worth a try!

The quality of pine does make a big difference as well! last year pine quality definitely dropped off a cliff, I've resorted to finding old doors search for pitch pine/doug fir doors on ebay, I think people started realising this in 2020 and they're going up in price because of it.

Thanks for this.

Agree about the pine. There’s a reclamation yard not to far from me who take old pine floorboards, run them through their planer and moulder before turning them into ledge doors. They charge £100 per door last time I bought some, it must cost them that in planer blades...would have been my first call under normal circumstances.

 

[Cabinetman]

A ledge on a door is mainly to stop it sagging which is why the ledge goes in opposite directions on a pair of doors. Can’t see it doing much to stop a door twisting. As Jacob said, tower bolt at the bottom of the out of line door will do it. Ian
Richard, no way on gods earth would I put floorboards through my planer! They must be mad or desperate.

 

[smackie]

Richard, no way on gods earth would I put floorboards through my planer! They must be mad or desperate.

Absolutely. I’ve been working my way through a stack of old pine floorboards for various projects that have a “rustic” look. Most of them are mid 19th century. I carefully removed all of the old square iron nails. I’ve been prepping them with a Rotex sander with 36 grade abrasive (watch your fingers ). It’s stunning how much metal is just below the surface. Snapped off nails, embedded staples, etc.

I thought I‘d been really careful but any one of the boards I‘ve prepped has been a stone-cold planer killer. None of them are route-able without care either...

 

[Dee J]

One unconventional approach worked for me on a similar door. 10 mm steel rod bent to fit 3 sides of a rectangle ie top, hinge edge and bottom of the door. Initially make it flat and fix to the inside of the door using clips, saddles /whatever. Then an incremental adjustment. Remove the rod, heat the middle red hot and set a bit of a twist in it opposed to the twist of the door. Re-fit and see if it's got enough spring to pull the door straight. Repeat until it just flattens the door. A large cupboard door stayed flat for 10 years using that method.

 

[Cabinetman]

One unconventional approach worked for me on a similar door. 10 mm steel rod bent to fit 3 sides of a rectangle ie top, hinge edge and bottom of the door. Initially make it flat and fix to the inside of the door using clips, saddles /whatever. Then an incremental adjustment. Remove the rod, heat the middle red hot and set a bit of a twist in it opposed to the twist of the door. Re-fit and see if it's got enough spring to pull the door straight. Repeat until it just flattens the door. A large cupboard door stayed flat for 10 years using that method.

That’s a pretty novel ( if not quite the sort of thing you’d want on view) approach to pulling the twist out, I don’t think you would need to heat it you know, just bend it probably a bit further than you need.

 

[RichardG]

One unconventional approach worked for me on a similar door. 10 mm steel rod bent to fit 3 sides of a rectangle ie top, hinge edge and bottom of the door. Initially make it flat and fix to the inside of the door using clips, saddles /whatever. Then an incremental adjustment. Remove the rod, heat the middle red hot and set a bit of a twist in it opposed to the twist of the door. Re-fit and see if it's got enough spring to pull the door straight. Repeat until it just flattens the door. A large cupboard door stayed flat for 10 years using that method.

That is a very interesting approach, effectively a torsion beam car suspension for a door, good lateral thinking. Easy to fit too.

 

[MARK.B.]

If you can get it flattish again, could you possibly use those really strong magnets top bottom and one on each shelf to keep it snug

 

[RichardG]

Would certainly give my missus’s arm a good workout, of course I‘m not implying that she’s the only one to use the airing cupboard...

 

[stevek]

As its all fairly new how about putting somthing between the top and frame to hold it open and then forceing (not much force required I expect) the bottom closed with a bolt so induceing some twist,,it might be wishful thinking but could be worth a try,,

 

[Doug71]

Airing cupboards are always problematic for door movement, even MDF doors bend because of the difference in temperature between the inside and outside of the cupboard. I tend to try and put some kind of vent in airing cupboards and boiler cupboards just to try and even things out a bit. This is mine, the doors have still moved quite a bit.




Bolts will hold the doors in the correct position but are a pain if you need to access the cupboard regularly.

Any of the solutions mentioned might work but I do think there is always an element of luck involved with airing cupboard doors, especially using real wood.

 

[MARK.B.]

Would certainly give my missus’s arm a good workout, of course I‘m not implying that she’s the only one to use the airing cupboard...

I understand completely Richard Airing cupboards are perfect places for drying those little job's that you cant do in the workshop when its a bit nippy

 

[RichardG]

As its all fairly new how about putting somthing between the top and frame to hold it open and then forceing (not much force required I expect) the bottom closed with a bolt so induceing some twist,,it might be wishful thinking but could be worth a try,,

I have been doing this and it has shifted slightly over a couple of days. I did wonder about wetting/steaming the outside to encourage it over but that may make it worse...