Stop me buying a Wivamac!!!

[cambournepete]

So after the DM Tools tedium I drove to Didcot and spent 3 hours or so at the Toolpost open day.

Spoke to Mark Baker, Chris Pouncey (Robert Sorby) and Andrew Hall (the hat man).
All 3 were very impressed with the Wivamac lathes they were using, and Mark also enthused about the one Woodturning had in their workshop for several months. Mark let me have a play on the one he was using (2HP 1200 vario) and it was very smooth with little vibration on the bouncy floor it was standing on.

All of them were much better than the record maxi-1 and I think also than the maxi-2. Plus of course they have swivel/sliding headstocks.
Question to Wivamac owners - is moving the headstock awkward , having to use a spanner?

I expect to do a mixture of turning - bowls, spindle, hollow forms etc.

Now, I could afford (using an inheritance) to get a VB with full tailstock if I wanted, but would have little left for other toys.
I k now I've previously raved about the "Stealth" lathe, but that would leave even less of the inheritance.

So, I managed to leave with wallet intact, but with a good offer (open until Monday) on a Wivamac DB1200 Vario, 3HP, full variable electronic speed control with external control box, 1200mm between centres and 520mm diameter swing and bowl turning attachment, together with a Oneway Stronghold chuck (largely on Mark Baker's recommendation).

What does the team think?
Would I regret the Wivamac and keep thinking it's not a VB, or am I actually being vaguely sensible?
Is the Stronghold a good chuck?
Should I save more cash and just get the Jet 3520B, remembering though cost is not the primary issue, luckily, for once

Thanks in advance for any advice

Pete

PS Sorry George, I know it's not a VB!

 

[paulm]

I've had the same Wivamac for a few years now, never regretted it for a moment, excellent piece of kit.

The VB would be better still but I think you would need to be a seriously advanced or pro user to get the extra benefit from it. There's nothing much the Wivamac doesn't cope with that most users are likely to ask of it.

I've never actually bothered with moving the headstock, finding it quite comfortable/easy over the bed, although I imagine if I did more hollow forms then it might make a difference.

Cheers, Paul

 

[wizer]

It sounds to me like you've made your mind up. I like the wivamac, quite solid understated machine. The only thing you haven't mentioned it second hand lathes. Don't forget a VB went for 1500 last month and another went for 2k. My old Woodford (the original maxi-2) was a cracking lathe and I paid less than half what Record are asking. The BRM is fantastic and I hear that Silverdrive will be coming back to the market at some point. This sounds like you're last lathe buy. i.e your buying something that you want to last you for a long time. Will the Wivamac satisfy you for 10-15+yrs?

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Pete,

I find it interesting that you mention the Jet lathe. This is what I have my eye on when I get round to an upgrade. I was a bit torn myself between that and the Wivamac. The main thing that swings me toward the Jet is the extra wieght. Would you expand on your thoughts please??

Cheers,

Richard

 

[boysie39]

Hiya Pete, the three people you spoke to and reccomended the lathe having used it IMO. would be good enough for me . They are Pros. and should therefore be giving you an honest assestment of the lathe.
So unless you just want to have a sly little gloat :lol: :lol: go and get one. What ever you decide I wish you many years of turning. REgards Boysie.

 

[Neil Dyball]

Go on, you know you want to

p.s. if you don't like it I'm in the market for a secondhand one!

Happy shopping/turning.

Neil.

 

[SVB]

Pete,

As I have posted often here - I would give Vicmarc a try before finally deciding.

I have the 300 shortbed, the longbed is even more massive if you do spindle work.

Phil Irons (the UK dealer) usally has demo models that you can try. Spending that sort of cash it may be worth a try - cast iron vs welded construction is worth trying.

Also, you have not menioned Oneway - some really nice kit - maybe worth a look.

In summary, you probably can't go too far wrong at that end of the market but maybe worth investing a couple of tanks of fuel to get the feel of the options?

Keep us posted,

Simon

 

[BMac]

Pete,

That Jet 3520B will probably be my last big buy (I have a Jet1442 now) and the reason I am going for it is because it's the same as the Powermatic that is much loved for it's performance and reliability in America. I looked at the Wivamac lathes and was very impressed but would prefer cast iron.

Brendan

 

[cambournepete]

Hi Pete,
I find it interesting that you mention the Jet lathe. This is what I have my eye on when I get round to an upgrade. I was a bit torn myself between that and the Wivamac. The main thing that swings me toward the Jet is the extra wieght. Would you expand on your thoughts please??

Cheers,

Richard

Hi Richard,

Not entirely sure my thinking is clear, so this'll probably ramble a bit...

I've not used the Jet at all (just played with it in Nuneaton).

Remember that the Jet is really a US Powermatic 3520B modified for the EU (the spindle thread size is different). The rubber mat on the headstock even says "Powermatic". Googling "Powermatic 3520B" finds lots of info about it - I don't think I've found a bad review of it or even any major fault.
Knowing the sort of work you tend to do (at the moment):
The Jet does about 900mm between centres as standard, and you can add about 450mm with the bed extension. Powermatic in the US also provide a 1250mm extension, and you can add as many as you like...
The short bed extension can be attached in a lower position for larger diameters.

The Wivamac does 1200mm, and I don't think you can extend it.
Still plenty enough for me.

Both lathes operate very smoothly, with all parts releasing and locking easily. The Wivamac seems to use higher quality parts.

The Jet has the speed and forward/reverse controls on the headstock and a remote on/off. The wivamac has a remote box with on/off, forward/reverse, speed. It has a magnetic back and can be positioned anywhere on the lathe. The controls on the Wivamac seem to be higher quality.

The Jet has two speed ranges, the Wivamac 5.

The Jet weighs 326kg to the Wivamac 200ish.
The weight difference does bother me a little, but as I said it doesn't vibrate much on a bouncy floor. Both can be bolted to the floor if needed. The feet on the Jet aren't great, but easily unscrewed.

The castings on the Jet are clean and polished where they need to be, but rough else where. The Wivamac bed is welded steel and clean all over.

The headstock on the Wivamac rotates, for each bowl or hollowing work.
The Jet just slides.

The Wivamac can use more than one bowl attachment to give easy huge platter capability. Today at the Toolpost, they had a 4ft approx platter with two bowl attachments - one at right angles to the main bed, the second attached to the fist at right angles to that.

The Wivamac uses taper roller bearings (I think), the Jet uses ball bearings. For the amount of use I'm likely to give it will make no difference - for a pro such as yourself it might, but many pros use the Jet/Powermatic.

Most of my Jet comments apply to the Jet 4224 (except 440kg, fixed headstock, 3HP, and 3 speed ranges.

If you spend 95% of your time on spindle work, then the Jet is probably fine. If it's nearer 50/50 then the movable headstock is a must IMHO, not withstanding paulm's comment.

The indexing on the Wivamac is very positive and easy to use - I can't remember what it's like on the Jet.

The Jet costs just under £2100 for the basic lathe.
The Wivamac with closest equivalent spec is just over £2600.
With the spec I want, it's just under £3680.

If you're still reading and fancy a chat then PM me

 

[cambournepete]

That Jet 3520B will probably be my last big buy (I have a Jet1442 now) and the reason I am going for it is because it's the same as the Powermatic that is much loved for it's performance and reliability in America. I looked at the Wivamac lathes and was very impressed but would prefer cast iron.

Pete,

As I have posted often here - I would give Vicmarc a try before finally deciding.

Also, you have not menioned Oneway - some really nice kit - maybe worth a look.

I've considered all of them but they don't having rotating headstocks.
Is that the be-all and end-all of things? No but I think I want it.

The Vicmarc is nearly £900 more than the Vivamac (with bowl attachment).
The Oneway (2436) is over £2000 more. Sadly they didn't have one in the Toolpost on display - they tend to send you to see Les Throne or Stuart Mortimer.
The Jet is very tempting at the much lower price but as I just posted I prefer the Wivamac, although it's hard to fully justify/quantify why...

 

[cambournepete]

... second hand lathes... My old Woodford (the original maxi-2) was a cracking lathe and I paid less than half what Record are asking.

I saw your Woodford (Woodfast?) briefly at Bliseters and it looked a better lathe than what Record are selling now.
The levers on it now for example are cheap and uncomfortable.

second hand lathes. Don't forget a VB went for 1500 last month and another went for 2k

Yeah, I know and I've been talking to Alan Southworth about his as well...
Don't get me wrong, I love the VB, and for many people it's perfect, I'm just not sure it's perfect for me.

The BRM is fantastic and I hear that Silverdrive will be coming back to the market at some point.

I'm not sure about the direct drive lathes in general - there's a certain simplicity in belt drive. Also extra safety and torque control possibilities. most of the direct drive lathes have too much computer power involved as well - I used to write software so I know how easy it is to get wrong...

This sounds like you're last lathe buy. i.e your buying something that you want to last you for a long time. Will the Wivamac satisfy you for 10-15+yrs?

Not an easy question to answer and one I've been asking myself, but I think the answer is yes.[/quote]

 

[Blister]

Pete

VB VBVB

A few used ones around at the moment

:lol:

 

[mark sanger]

I have used both. The Wiva mac gave a resonant hum when hollowing which could get on my wick.

The Jet was superior in my opinion. Heavier, and for hollowing you just slide the head stock up to the end so no need to lean over the bed.

 

[TobyB]

I've got the Wivamac 6000 with the bowl extension and it's a very nice bit of kit indeed. I didn't look at the Jet but did like the VicMarc, but price and practicality ruled it out. I'd never get a VB into my basement, and don't think I'll ever have the skills to justify the benefits.

Moving/rotating the headstock is easy to use. Indexing very positive. It's been very solid/secure even when mounting unbalanced bits of log (and it's not bolted down). I like the moveable switch unit too - very handy as you change positions between spindle and hollowing with the head rotated. If I had the space I'd have got the 1200 bed - may still get another 6000 bed and third set of legs as an occasional extension - I gather from Peter that it's a workable option.

 

[cambournepete]

Pete

VB VBVB

A few used ones around at the moment

:lol:

where though?
Can't find one on Ebay or using google ...

 

[Blister]

:lol: :lol: PM Sent :lol: :lol:

 

[Gordon T]

Hello all,

I have the wivamac mentioned in the first post, have had it over two years, it is a beast abd has never let me down. I would not change and feel sure I have not yet tested it to its full potential. You would not be wasting your time chatting to Peter at the Toolpost regarding these lathes. He is most knowledgeable and friendly.

GT

 

[cambournepete]

Thanks everyone for the advice and comments.

I went over to Southwold yesterday with the family and my mother to make sure the sea was still there and do some quality control on Adnams .

While there I managed to sneak off to Henstead Art & Crafts Centre to visit Cobweb Crafts.
I had a chat there with Andy Coates who uses the Wivamac DB1200 professionally.
His comments backed up all the other comments I've heard about it.
He's had it several years and is very pleased with it.
It's always done what he's asked of it and never had a problem.

So I think I'll be calling Peter at the Toolpost this afternoon to place my order

Why not the VB?
The Wivamac has all the capacities I think I'll need for a very long time.
I want the ability to do longer spindles then the VB provides and the convenience of an easily movable tailstock that you get on the more "standard" lathe. The VB is great, but not for me, today.

 

[Blister]

(hammer) =D> :mrgreen: (hammer) \/ =D> :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :tool: :tool: :tool:

 

[johnny.t.]

Surely Blister hasn't got a 'spare' VB has he :shock: