Steel for plane body .

[ayuce]

Apart from price and ease of manufacture, i dont know why there is usually cast iron body planes but not steel body. Cant cast iron but perhaps mill some steel.

Anyway what type of steel could be used for home made plane, any idea ? i.e. for the sole of an infill plane. Is there any full steel body plane made of non exotic steel ?

 

[Mr_P]

If I remember correctly you can use anything as long as it hasn't been hardened.

Richard T started with mild steel and moved on to 01 / gauge plate just before he died. Lots of his threads here for inspiration.
ukw-best-home-made-tools-t89284.html

Karl Holtey can even do it with stainless steel, impressive.

 

[AndyT]

I think you have answered your own question. Cast iron lets you make the complicated shape of a plane consistently and relatively cheaply.

Vaughan and Bushnell did offer a range of drop forged steel planes.

There are plenty of craftsman made planes made of ordinary mild steel.

 

[bugbear]

For mass production, casting is effective and cheap. Very expensive and difficult for one-off.

For one off, steel is easy to work. Very expensive and difficult for mass production.

BugBear

 

[ayuce]

RIP Richard T and thanks Mr_P for the links. Bugbear your absolutely right. As a hobbiest finding and shaping hardenable or mild steel much more easy and cheaper than cast iron/brass/bronze.

Andy_T do you have any info what type of steel being used on those planes ? Abbrassion resistance changes from one steel type to another, perhaps some types preffered ?

 

[AndyT]

Andy_T do you have any info what type of steel being used on those planes ? Abbrassion resistance changes from one steel type to another, perhaps some types preffered ?

Sorry, not really. I first learnt about V&B here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/vaughan-bushnell-no-905-t55044.html

I expect the main claimed advantage would have been not snapping if dropped.

 

[monkeybiter]

I expect the main claimed advantage would have been not snapping if dropped.

Wouldn't it then be an adjustable compass plane? Just need lump hammer... (hammer)

 

[Bedrock]

I think that bright mild steel (BMS) is fine, but, as I have commented recently on the bronze infill casting posting, for thinner sections, I am a bit doubtful as to flatness because of the way it is usually racked in long lengths in the stockists, and if you don't have milling facilities, it can be an extra pain you don't need.
Hence I have gone for gauge plate, which is an O1 steel, and comes ground to fairly tight tolerances, in standard lengths of 500mm. It has been used commonly for making blades, as it can be hardened. If you then fabricate the plane body, there is usually enough over to make a tight fitting blade.

I think at one time, Karl Holtley advocated black steel, which he then milled/ground to finish, as apparently the method of making BMS introduced stresses into the steel, (and which black steel doesn't have), much I suppose like timber which can move after machining.
He is obviously fully kitted out with the appropriate machinery to which most of us don't have access.

Mike

 

[Andy RV]

O1 gauge plate / ground flat stock is your best option. It's tough and most importantly to someone with out a surface grinder, flat and straight enough for plane making.

 

[heimlaga]

I would use a piece of hot rolled mild steel U-channel. U40 or U50 or U65 or U 80 depending on the desired width of the plane. That would make a very solid plane body with the sides and the sole all in one piece. Hot rolled steel does not have the kind of inner stresses found in cold rolled sections and the tolerances are usually good right from the beginning so flattening the sole and the sides would be easy.

I have often wondered why people bother with dovetailed sides on infill planes when there is this cheap and straightforward raw material sold new in 6 metre lengths or found as offcuts at almost any scrap yard for 50 cents a kilo.

 

[rxh]

This idea came up in an earlier thread of mine:

post783428.html#p783428

Jelly asked the question:
“... Would it not be possible to just use a length of channel obviating the need to dovetail the sides?”

rxh reply:
“Your question about the use of channel is very interesting and I wonder if anyone has tried this method. I think the main difficulty would be a finding suitable size. Steel channel seems to come in two main types: rolled (which has tapered sides) and “parallel flange” (which appears to be folded from flat plate and has rounded outer corners and would thus be a non-starter). The rolled type is available in certain standard sizes but none seems to be suitable, e.g. the 76mm x 38mm size would be wide enough for a 2 3/8” blade but the sides would be rather thick and not be high enough to carry the holes for mounting the lever cap. I also wonder if stresses trapped during the manufacturing process might cause distortion to occur after the sides are cut to shape.”

Also, I think Vann posted a photo of a plane made from steel channel a while ago. It wasn’t very pretty

 

[heimlaga]

Thanks for your reply

There are no stresses trapped inside a hot rolled section. I have made enough stuff from flat bars and u-channels and angle irons to know that they are all free from internal stresses. That is because they are rolled to shape in a red hot state and left to cool. Cold rolled parallel flange channels have a lot of internal stresses.

Those inch sizes are very hard to find in Europe theese days. In 10 years of rummaging around scrap yards I have only seen a few pieces of 3 inch (76mm) U channel. Everone has been using metric sizes for 50 years or more.
U65 is 65 mm wide outside and 50 mm wide inside. That is a bit tight for a 2 inch blade but grinding away a millimetre from the width of a blade would't be too hard.
Though the sides may end up a bit too thick and clumsy.......

 

[AndyT]

I thought I could remember something about late Norris planes having been made from rolled steel channel, but did not want to mention it in case I had remembered wrongly.

I hadn't, and it was in this thread that I started, three years ago: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/how-did-norris-make-their-later-planes-t63543.html.

Ayuce, do read the whole thread, but especially this article on Peter McBride's site, showing how the big Norris panel planes were machined from steel channel:

http://www.petermcbride.com/norris_panel/.

If it was good enough for Norris... :wink:

 

[ayuce]

Thanks to all for the infos. I'm into amateur knifemaking recently (by stock removal, not forging) , got some info on materials and processes. Actually have some stainless and tool steel sheets in the shop but not O1/O1/A2 stuff. Here they are available in round or square stock only no sheets. Will check perhaps 6mm thick bars could be available. I can get the body heat treated bu probably this is not a good idea can damage the wood.

For knifes, biggest problem with internal stress is cracks developed during heat treatment or just after. Haven't heard of bend steel during use because of internal stess but will ask again to my friends.

If ordinary mild steel is good enough, i thing i can find a way to shape it. Using U channel steel is a great idea. But side walls could be issue, NPU 40 could be suitable for a block plane. It has two version 40mm bottom 20mm or 35mm sides.

Regards
Ahmet

 

[AndyT]

The Norris planes made from channel were definitely thinned on the sides. The pictures in the article I linked to clearly show marks from some sort of miller or grinder.
Without thinning the sides they would have been impossibly heavy.

 

[ayuce]

Actually for NPU40 thickness is 5mm, but the side height 35mm. Not sure if its enough for a block plane. I should check my Stanley 60 1/2 sides.