Startrite 275 Table saw blade alignment

[deema]

Thanks, yep having a senior moment. It’s a floating adjustment, ie the single adjuster affects both clamps. If it clamps and is rigid, you’re good. The Startrite fence IMO is a better design than the Wadkin.

Looking at positives, the hook isn’t damaged, they are often broken, and the micro adjust is in excellent condition, doesn’t look to be damaged / worn which they often are.

 

[tren]

Thanks, yep having a senior moment. It’s a floating adjustment, ie the single adjuster affects both clamps. If it clamps and is rigid, you’re good. The Startrite fence IMO is a better design than the Wadkin.

Looking at positives, the hook isn’t damaged, they are often broken, and the micro adjust is in excellent condition, doesn’t look to be damaged / worn which they often are.

So are you saying that the behaviour of my rip fence is normal and expected when I turn the knob?
The problem I see with the fence is that depending on which direction I turn the knob/adjust the fence, it gives me different alignment (the clamp mechanism secure the rip fence but does not necessarily straighten it into the adjusted alignment). Is this normal behaviour?

I remember you saying that it's good practice to only adjust the fence moving it towards the blade. Does that meant that I should only move and secure the clamp that way?

Atm the moment I get a much better alignment if I adjust the fence moving it away from the blade. Towards the blade I get a very misaligned fence.

 

[Distinterior]

The part 116 "Tie Rod", is threaded both ends and the front thread is a normal RH thread......The rear thread is a LH thread and there is a spade end slot in the end to allow for adjustment ( these slots are often very worn...!) This threads into part number 120 " Trunnion Nut"...You will need to undo/ slacken the "Set Screw " 121 by 2 or 3 full rotations and then turn the Tie Rod with a spade end screwdriver to tighten it and remove any excess play in the mechanism.....Only very small adjustments to the rod should be necessary to remove any excessive play.
Make the adjustments, then try locking the fence in position by pressing down the lever at the front....If it's too tight, back off the rod again.

Once you've got it working correctly, re tighten the Set Screw 121 again.

Edit.
Make sure the front & rear round bars are clean and rust free and also the mating surfaces of the front and rear clamping surfaces....Any marring or build up of rust will inhibit the smooth movement of the fence.

Tim.

 

[tren]

The part 116 "Tie Rod", is threaded both ends and the front thread is a normal RH thread......The rear thread is a LH thread and there is a spade end slot in the end to allow for adjustment ( these slots are often very worn...!) This threads into part number 120 " Trunnion Nut"...You will need to undo/ slacken the "Set Screw " 121 by 2 or 3 full rotations and then turn the Tie Rod with a spade end screwdriver to tighten it and remove any excess play in the mechanism.....Only very small adjustments to the rod should be necessary to remove any excessive play.
Make the adjustments, then try locking the fence in position by pressing down the lever at the front....If it's too tight, back off the rod again.

Once you've got it working correctly, re tighten the Set Screw 121 again.

Edit.
Make sure the front & rear round bars are clean and rust free and also the mating surfaces of the front and rear clamping surfaces....Any marring or build up of rust will inhibit the smooth movement of the fence.

Tim.

Hi Tim - thanks for your very detailed instructions. I will give it a go tomorrow.

 

[tren]

The part 116 "Tie Rod", is threaded both ends and the front thread is a normal RH thread......The rear thread is a LH thread and there is a spade end slot in the end to allow for adjustment ( these slots are often very worn...!) This threads into part number 120 " Trunnion Nut"...You will need to undo/ slacken the "Set Screw " 121 by 2 or 3 full rotations and then turn the Tie Rod with a spade end screwdriver to tighten it and remove any excess play in the mechanism.....Only very small adjustments to the rod should be necessary to remove any excessive play.
Make the adjustments, then try locking the fence in position by pressing down the lever at the front....If it's too tight, back off the rod again.

Once you've got it working correctly, re tighten the Set Screw 121 again.

Edit.
Make sure the front & rear round bars are clean and rust free and also the mating surfaces of the front and rear clamping surfaces....Any marring or build up of rust will inhibit the smooth movement of the fence.

Tim.

Hi Tim,

So I did try the adjustment today but I don't seem to be able to get it right. I still have to give the bars a really good clean but...

It seems that no matter what I do the cast end always move first then drags the hook causing the fence to be misaligned by a lot (both end of the fence don't move at the same time). I kind of managed to get it at an acceptable alignment if I move the fence left to right (away from the blade) but it is way off alignment if I move the fence right to left (towards the blade).

I'm trying to understand what should be a normal behaviour for my rip fence...

Is it supposed to move aligned with the blade regardless of the direction I move it (towards or away from the blade)?
Is it normal that the clamping does not 'straighten' the rip fence into alignment?

 

[Distinterior]

The method I've found that works with this type of fence, is to apply a slight rearward pressure on the front cast section, slide the fence sideways and keeping that pressure on, then tighten down the clamp.
As long as the adjustments have been set up as I mentioned in my previous post, the fence should clamp up square....

EDIT.
I'm refurbishing a TA165 saw at the moment and its currently all in bits ( it has the same fence system on it as the TA175 and the TA275)
I'm just wondering if a previous owner of your saw has had your fence/ clamp apart and it's been reassembled incorrectly perhaps...?

 

[tren]

The method I've found that works with this type of fence, is to apply a slight rearward pressure on the front cast section, slide the fence sideways and keeping that pressure on, then tighten down the clamp.

I will try that tomorrow...

I'm just wondering if a previous owner of your saw has had your fence/ clamp apart and it's been reassembled incorrectly perhaps...?

It's apparent that the front cast section as been welded back together at some stage. It's very possible that when it happened it wasn't welded square...And possibly not put back together correctly, god knows! Although the clamping does seem to behave correctly as far as I know...Is the clamping system supposed to 'clamp' at both end at the same time? Or is the front cast should clamp first (before the hook)?

 

[Distinterior]

I just had another more detailed look at your short videos of your fence......I spotted the welding on the front cast section...
That could indeed be part of the problem...
When adjusted correctly, the front and back normally pretty much clamp up at the same time.
The fence on the 165 I'm working on currently is completely in bits at the moment......I'm not sure if it would help you, but I can always take a few pics of all the components laid out....?

 

[tren]

I just had another more detailed look at your short videos of your fence......I spotted the welding on the front cast section...
That could indeed be part of the problem...
When adjusted correctly, the front and back normally pretty much clamp up at the same time.
The fence on the 165 I'm working on at the moment is completely in bits at the moment......I'm not sure if it would help you, but I can always take a few pics of all the components laid out....?

Ok yeah my fence does clamp back and front at the same time. I will give the bars a really good clean tomorrow and try to make them as smooth as I can and try the rearward pressure to see if that make a difference.

 

[Fitzroy]

I know it’s a different saw but the fence on my Wadkin ags10 does similar, depending on if I bring the fence in or move it away the far end clamps up fractionally lagging from the direction of movement. I can manage this by bringing the fence locking lever slowly and giving the fence a little nudge/knock as I’m doing so.

 

[tren]

I just had another more detailed look at your short videos of your fence......I spotted the welding on the front cast section...
That could indeed be part of the problem...
When adjusted correctly, the front and back normally pretty much clamp up at the same time.
The fence on the 165 I'm working on currently is completely in bits at the moment......I'm not sure if it would help you, but I can always take a few pics of all the components laid out....?

The rearward pressure helps a great lots as expected. I think by the time I give my bars a good sand and make them super smooth it will probably be much better. Am now on the look for a cast end replacement or a new doner fence if I can find one...

 

[tren]

Gave the bars a very good clean/sand to make them as smooth as possible and it made a huge different to my rip fence behaviour!
I struggle to get it aligned on it's own (need to push the hook side as far left as I kind to get it aligned before clamping) but I think this is due to the cast end being broken and re-welded together. I tried to realigned it but it seems that it is as far left as it can be already....I would need to either source a doner table at some point or buy a new or second hand replacement part for it and hope it will solve my issue.

 

[nathanb]

Hi Tren, sorry you've had these alignment issues with your table saw, but sounds like you've got most of them resolved now. Thought I'd share my experiences as I have the same tablesaw and also had the same issues.

To align the blade to the table I first removed the alignment pins completely then loosened the bolts holding the blade assembly to the table. I was then able to use a screwdriver in the pin holes to lever the blade assembly until it was aligned with the table slots and tightened the bolts. I used a dial indicator for this and got it down to about the same accuracy as yours. I figured this out after multiple attempts using various different methods but this was the easiest for me.

My rip fence also had considerable slop which I managed to reduce by tightening up the distance between the front and back clamps. I never did get it 100% though so I would do what has already been mentioned, where I would only clamp when moving the fence towards the blade. This worked but was annoying (and I wanted to fit an aftermarket sliding table and the fence bars on the front and back of the table would get in the way) so I eventually just made and replaced with a biesemeyer style fence which was surprisingly easy and worked perfectly considering I had no experience whatsoever in welding! I do miss the micro adjust though. If you're interested I can share the instructions I followed to make it.

 

[tren]

Hi Tren, sorry you've had these alignment issues with your table saw, but sounds like you've got most of them resolved now. Thought I'd share my experiences as I have the same tablesaw and also had the same issues.

To align the blade to the table I first removed the alignment pins completely then loosened the bolts holding the blade assembly to the table. I was then able to use a screwdriver in the pin holes to lever the blade assembly until it was aligned with the table slots and tightened the bolts. I used a dial indicator for this and got it down to about the same accuracy as yours. I figured this out after multiple attempts using various different methods but this was the easiest for me.

My rip fence also had considerable slop which I managed to reduce by tightening up the distance between the front and back clamps. I never did get it 100% though so I would do what has already been mentioned, where I would only clamp when moving the fence towards the blade. This worked but was annoying (and I wanted to fit an aftermarket sliding table and the fence bars on the front and back of the table would get in the way) so I eventually just made and replaced with a biesemeyer style fence which was surprisingly easy and worked perfectly considering I had no experience whatsoever in welding! I do miss the micro adjust though. If you're interested I can share the instructions I followed to make it.

Hi Nathan,

thanks for your message, I think my issue is clearly due to the broken/repairer cast unfortunately. But yes I agree I am getting on with the rip fence so I would certainly be interested in the modification you have made if you can share! thanks

 

[nathanb]

Hi Nathan,

thanks for your message, I think my issue is clearly due to the broken/repairer cast unfortunately. But yes I agree I am getting on with the rip fence so I would certainly be interested in the modification you have made if you can share! thanks

No problem Tren, here's the pdf I followed. The only thing i would recommend doing differently is not to cut the angles on the steel either side of the clamping handle as per the plan, as it makes it a bit difficult to fit the measurement marker. When I get some time I will be re-making mine copying some of the neat features on the Axminster AP254TS fence!