Starting to work with metal?

[Chris152]

My son's 15 and has recently done welding, some work on an anvil and soon to do some turning in school for his gcse engineering. I want to encourage him in this but don't have the option to invest in the kind of kit needed for that sort of work.

Is there any metal working that we could easily start at home (not too noisy, expensive or hazardous)? Maybe working with copper or brass - does that require lower temps than steel? I've no idea, I learned to weld many years back but that's about it. Oh, and it'd have to be done outside - the garage is spoken for by wood!

Thanks

Chris

 

[LancsRick]

You say he's done some smithing, why not get a forge set up? You need very few tools to be able to do a lot with it.

 

[Chris152]

You say he's done some smithing, why not get a forge set up? You need very few tools to be able to do a lot with it.

He's been on about that - it involves heating and hammering the metal into shape, right? I reckon that'd get the neighbours' backs up?! I did check for intro courses on smithing but they all seemed to be for 18+ years near us. Since then I spoke with a couple of friends who have forges (not so near here) and they've said they'll show him, but that'll be some time off.

 

[Rorschach]

Sheet metal work is a great cheap way to get into making practical projects.

For a start, sheet metal can be had for free in lots of places, you just have to look around. The thin gauge used on the outside of white goods is perfectly fine for lots of things and thin aluminium is used for signage.
As for tools, an angle grinder is nice but not essential, just a couple of pairs of cheap tin snips will do most things. A bender again is nice, and not expensive, but you can get by without it.
As for joining, a drill and a pop rivet gun. For about a tenner you can nice rivet gun and selection of rivets.

If he uses only the hand tools, the noise made it almost zero, not much mess either.

Oh and a tip for long neat straight cuts on aluminium sheet; using a straight edge and a stanley knife score the line gently and repeat the scoring several times, keep the pressure light so you don't slip. After about 10 cuts you will have a nice deep line. Then bend on the score line, it should bend easily. Work the bend back and forth a couple of times and it will snap very cleanly.

I have made cuts a metre long in 1.5mm sheet and they needed just a few minutes with a file and sandpaper for a perfect straight edge. No noise, no mess, no fancy tools.

 

[AES]

Hullo Chris,

It sounds like your son is going to the sort of school that I (and many others of my generation) went to back in the 1950s. Great! From all that I've heard that doesn't happen much in UK these days, so as I think that UK needs more "technicians", and as I firmly believe that whatever he ends up doing for a technical career, that all starts from basic hand skills, I find it great that you want to encourage him. Well done Sir.

Now to the "easy" bit. Any ideas about what he wants to make? Are we talking sheet metal work here, or more "solid" work?

To do anything in metal he needs access to a basic set of hand tools, such as measuring and marking out equipment, hack saws, files, drills, etc. And I assume that through you he already has access to basic hand tools such as screwdrivers, spanners, pliers, etc, right?

So let us know what ideas he (you?) have about what to make and there are loads of us here who'll be pleased to help.

Meantime, think about materials and reading.

For materials some skip diving is called for, and just about "any old bits of metal" will do. This can add difficulties with "unknown lumps" but also broadens the experience quickly. Plus some suppliers - I suggest those who cater for the model engineering fraternity, and you'll find several listed in the sticky at the top of the General Metal Working section of this Forum.

For books, there are the local library and/or Amazon, and/or any SH bookshops if you have any nearby. Personally I highly recommend these books:

"Metalworking Tools and Techniques" by Stan Bray, ISBN 1-86126-573-5. As the name suggests, a good all round intro, and full of practical hints and tips, as well as good ideas on tools.

"Model Engineering - a foundation course" by Peter Wright, ISBN 1-85486-152-2. As you'd expect, a lot of information on lathes and turning, but even if he doesn't lean that way/funds don't permit, a lot of good basic stuff in there too.

"Making Woodwork Aids & Devices" by Robert Wearing, ISBN 0-00-412644-0. If he's not sure of what he wants to make, and as you're a wood worker, I'll bet you'll find a lot of bits and pieces in this book that you could use and he'd like to have a bash at making!

To that I'd add a subscription to the mag "Model Engineer's Workshop" (rather than the original "Model Engineer" mag) The former has a lot more general info. But both have lots of small ads by suppliers of all sorts, plus private sales of all sorts of useful tools, kits, materials, etc.

I hope that above is enough to start you both off. Come back with any more Qs, and especially when he's decided what he wants to make.

Good luck to you both and HTH.

 

[Fergal]

I have to second AES comment about Model Engineers Workshop magazine. I've recently come back to metalworking after a 35 year absence and found it invaluable.

As for projects not involving expensive equipment, what about soldering copper? You just need a plumbing blowtorch and some old copper pipe which can be split lengthwise and hammered flat to make sheet. There are also brazing rods available which can be used with a propane torch to join aluminium.

Aluminium casting can also be done with very limited equipment. A charcoal BBQ and a fan can get hot enough to melt aluminium. There are lots of videos on Youtube about how to do this.

Fergal

 

[Fergal]

Another idea if sheet metal projects are of interest, is a spot welder. These can be made from a microwave oven transformer and the sheet metal of the case can be salvaged for projects. Free microwave ovens are easy to find on Gumtree, Facebook, etc.

Again, lots of videos on Youtube about making spot welders.

Fergal

 

[TFrench]

If you're anywhere near leicester we're desperate for a new apprentice!

 

[sunnybob]

About a dozen years ago I was getting into ornamental iron work. Its a quiet hobby, that allows you to make stuff that can actually be sold.
Their web site doesnt work now but I have found them on facebopok and there are a couple you tube vids too.
https://www.facebook.com/MetalcraftUK/

 

[Chris152]

Really, really helpful replies everyone - thanks so much! I guess the biggest question I have to sort is the one AES asked - what does he want to make?! Well, one's a sheath knife (it'll be kept in the garage and fetched out when we're doing stuff together), and a friend says he's going to help with that some time over summer. The other's a go kart, which he's been on about for a few years but looks incredibly expensive, and no idea where could use it once built. And that needs loads of kit and skills that I don't have, so that's out. tbh I think he's been hooked by the processes of shaping metal, so we need to talk about what's possible with what we have and what we can reasonably get. One thing I haven't let on to him about is that I'd really quite like to get a mig welder for some of the stuff I'd like to do - if I tell him I'm thinking about it he won't shut up til I get one.

About a dozen years ago I was getting into ornamental iron work. Its a quiet hobby, that allows you to make stuff that can actually be sold.
Their web site doesnt work now but I have found them on facebopok and there are a couple you tube vids too.
https://www.facebook.com/MetalcraftUK/

That stuff looks brilliant Bob though to see the prices - wait for it - you have to register and log in! (Saw your RP post earlier...) I'm going to do it anyway, just did a quick trawl of the net and people rate it very highly and judging by the vids, it looks quiet and full of possibilities.

We're going to talk about what he wants to make the next couple of days and I'll post again when things get clearer - tho I might just do a bit of skip diving in the meantime to see what I can find - and I have a pop riveter somewhere if I can find it, maybe just cutting and joining some bits will get the conversation going.

I'm really grateful for all the replies - thanks again.

C

 

[Fergal]

One of my kids was into knife making for a while. All you need for that is a bench grinder or a belt sander and a few hand tools.

As for go karts, I fancy making one myself. It doesn't have to be expensive. You can use salvaged box section steel from old bed frames etc. Motors from wheelchairs or hoverboards can be used, or you can even use a car alternator as a motor. Good excuse to get that MIG welder I reckon!

 

[sunnybob]

The metalcraft stuff uses annealed iron strips, you bend to shape, drill and rivet, etc. with almost no noise. the possibilities are endless. The only reason I didnt carry on with it was when I moved here I could not get the soft iron as he has it specially done in spain, and I just couldnt see me ordering a ton at a time.

If you want to make a knife, all you have to do is visit a vehicle scrap yard and get an old suspension leaf spring. and a 100 hacksaw blades, and a 1000 foot of emery paper, and a tube of solvol. Done that. Of course nowadays there are angle grinders and grindstones to speed things up a bit.

I had a hunting knife when I was 12 (still got it) But of course back then you only got arrested AFTER you stuck someone.

 

[LancsRick]

Knife making is a fantastic suggestion actually, minimal tools but you can create some stunning pieces with practice.

 

[Rorschach]

If you want to do knifemaking, start with knife handling. Superb blades can be had very cheaply, like less than a tenner. Learning how to handle them will set you down the right path for making your own knives and what is needed to handle those etc. It's dead easy to rough out a blade, more difficult is to make a harmonious blade and handle that is strong, practical and beautiful. Start with a kit and work up from there.

https://brisa.fi/

 

[AES]

I don't know anything about knife making, or ornamental wrought iron, but both sheet metal working (good for "bodywork" on the go cart), soldering sheet metal (copper's good), AND the MIG welder? That's a DEFINITE IMO! There's a very good web site for wanna-be welders which is worth looking at - I don't have the linky, sorry, but just do a search for "MIG WELDING" on youtube. As ever, read everything you read/watch there with a bit of care (like many others I've seen some videos - on a lot of different subjects - which I deffo would NOT want to try)!

There's a lot of videos on electric powered "play" go carts for kids too, some of which may help if you don't want to go deep end in first (with proper racing machines).

Let us know how you both get on please.

 

[chiokli]

When I was starting out in making, I really wanted to weld stuff so bought a 120A Arc/stick welder from Aldi for about, £50 back then. There wasn't as much YouTube tutorials back then, but I was able to weld some tubes and bicycle frames into a mountain board with big tyres. Arc welding is so cheap to do compared to MIG, but the learning curve is much steeper. AvE on YouTube talks about how simple MIG welding can be and the false sense of accomplishment.

Plug it in through the kitchen window, get some 6012 electrodes and a welding mask and you can join all sorts of salvaged steel together.

 

[bourbon]

If you are going the welding route. There is a very good forum as mentioned before. Mig or stick, the first thing to do is throw away the stupid masks that they all seem to come with. Pop onto E-bay and get an auto darkening mask. they really do help. Don't forget that the stuff you stick together WILL be hot so be careful how you handle it.

 

[Fergal]

I started with a cheap Aldi AC arc welder (£20). It will stick bits of metal together but only thicker stuff ( >3mm) and is not the best machine to learn on. There are also cheaper DC inverter arc welders available now for £70ish that are easier to use, but still require a lot of skill on thinner materials. MIG is significantly easier to learn although requires a larger investment, but is much more suitable for thin stuff.

+1 for the auto-darkening mask.

The welding forum mentioned previously is here:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/

I'm a member over there also. It's a very friendly forum with lots of useful info and helpful members.

 

[sunnybob]

Or, combine both hobbies....

I've made several edged weapons, just because I can. I have a bubinga chefs knife that will slice cucumber easily.

 

[bourbon]

I started with a cheap Aldi AC arc welder (£20). It will stick bits of metal together but only thicker stuff ( >3mm) and is not the best machine to learn on. There are also cheaper DC inverter arc welders available now for £70ish that are easier to use, but still require a lot of skill on thinner materials. MIG is significantly easier to learn although requires a larger investment, but is much more suitable for thin stuff.

+1 for the auto-darkening mask.

The welding forum mentioned previously is here:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/

I'm a member over there also. It's a very friendly forum with lots of useful info and helpful members.

I wasn't sure If I could post the link, so thank you for doing so. I'm a member, (same username) Agree about the thickness of arc welding But it's a tool you can put away and not worry about wire rusting, gas leaking and stuff like that.