Starting from scratch tool buying advice please

[gucu]

Hi

I have been hacking bits of wood together for years - more or less relying on big screws and glue! In April of this year I am building a new shed that will be 16ft square and will finally stop hacking and start to learn how to build pieces of furniture.

I am therefore seeking advice on what tools to buy, how to decide on what is the best to buy. It is not an unlimited budget and I would prefer to buy a couple of power tools now and gradually buy more tools over the next year or so. I watched a youth tube video which suggested the two vital tools to start with is a table saw and a plunge router. But no further suggestions were made. I was left with a load of questions such as:
1. What size blade - the ones I am looking at are 8" or 10"
2. How much power do they need?
3. What are the minimal functions.
4. When I go on a site such as Machine Mart I find prices from £80 to £3000.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Rich

 

[RobinBHM]

Much depends on the type of furniture you want to make. If you are mostly making carcase based furniture, such as wardrobes, bookcases etc then you may find a track saw more useful, perhaps complimented with a chop saw.

If you are making small pieces such as boxes or working mostly in solid wood then a table saw comes into its own.

Dont dismiss the option of buying second hand. makes such as startrite, multico, wadkin are all solid machines with cast tables, you would be able to get a machine for between £500 -£1000.

I believe a few people on here have one of smaller axminster tables saws which are quite good (others will know better on that).

Routers -yes you can do a lot with a router and for making cabinet doors a router table (home made will do) will be ideal for the jointing.

Carcases of wardrobes can be simply screwed together as long as you finish the visible sides with a side cheek. With a face frame, doors some skirting and cornice you can make very professional fitted cabinets with surprisingly simple joints. The key is starting with very accurate cut parts.

Best of luck with your shed building -plenty of advise on here with that (a chop saw would be a very useful tool for that).

 

[gucu]

Thanks for such a complete answer. Currently I have made raised beds and a built in couch/sofa with storage drawers. The future will be more beds and storage. French cleat storage system.

Of course my first job will be to build a shed and storage in the shed and also a place to use the tools that I hope to buy.

And that was why I was so interested in what you said about the shed building. Should I start a fresh topic and should I buy a chop saw first to build the shed and the table saw and router after I build the shed please?

Thanks

Rich

 

[Adam9453]

Definitely get the chop saw to build the shed, it will make it hugely quicker and probably more accurate unless you're a Jedi with a hand saw

 

[Rhyolith]

If speed is not massively important, I would be inclided to go with an largly power tool free approach.

You often end up learning more this way as for something precise like the furniture it can go very wrong very fast with a powertool (equally it can go very right very fast!), whereas with a hand tool its slower (but not as much as you might think) so you often stop the mistakes sooner. Hands tools are also way cheaper and decent ones hold their value at all well (only a handful of the best powertools hold there value well) making the whole thing a smaller investment. Its also good for the enviroment and all that and there are more reasons, but I think you get the idea

Anyway, a lot of people might not agree, but unless you really need to be ober fast I don't really think any powertools are necessary... with the possible exception of sanders.... just becasue hand sanding is soooo boring.....

 

[AJB Temple]

Interesting project, I do hope you will keep us posted with progress. Put a bit of time into planning your workshop and give consideration to wood storage. We always need a bigger stock areas than we think we do. Also plan you power supply and lighting carefully and ideally lay on water. Consider how yo optimise year round usage with winter warming!

I moved house last year and also had to set up a workshop almost from scratch as a lot of my tools had been stolen. I already had a large outbuilding but I would have done it differently If I was starting from scratch. Re tools: may I suggest that you think carefully what you intend to produce. In my case it is very mixed, ranging from outdoor furniture, to kitchen cabinets (all for own of family use), flooring, panels etc and my long term hobby of (occasionally now) making acoustic and electric guitars. I do have a table saw but I hardly ever use it and I don't think it would be near the top of my list if I were starting again. Mine is an old heavy duty multi and I picked it up dirt cheap when I bought my Fobco pillar drill, so it was an opportunistic rathe than intentional purchase. A table saw is great for panels, especially if you re doing repetitions work, but they take up a lot of space.

I would not want to manage without a planer / thicknesses, as it saves me a lot of money in not having to pay for other people to prep my timber to size. They are readily available second hand and do not take up much space. Mine is a second hand Axminster Trade one and is fine for what I need. For commercial use a new Hammer of something would be nice.

I do find my sliding chop / mitre saws extremely useful and would not want to be without them. Large capacity is helpful. I use these far more than the table saw.

I also have a 16" bandsaw that I use a lot, amazingly useful tool. This is excellent for re-sawing timber. Mine is a Jet but I would be tempted by the new Startrite 403 if I were doing production work. I also frequently use my 12" disc sander.

When building your shed try to plan in dis and chip extraction arrangements, ideally siting the machine outside the workshop in a lean-to / annexe as it will cut down on both noise and dust.

A router is super useful. I have 5 (three came as a job lot off this forum - I dint really want three extras) and one permanently lives in the router table, two are set up for dovetailing, and the others are for trimming and freehand. You only need one decent router, but I would get one with a 1/2" collet. A router table is dead handy. Easy to make or a decent Trend one is £200 or so.

I managed to go for years without an impact driver. I bought a new Milwaukee Fuel 5Ah drill / driver set last year and now I cannot imagine how I ever managed without a driver. When you build your shed it will be incredibly useful. I use mine far more than the drill. Recently I have built lots of formwork for concreting as I am putting up some buildings and creating path foundations etc, and find it super quick and convenient to bank everything together with the impact driver. Brilliant tool.

Electric sanders need to be on your list. Lots of advice on this forum. Random orbital and a decent belt sander are very helpful.

When you make your bench, do it right first time. Heavy frame, thick top, big vice. Flimsy bench is a bad starting point.

Leave a bit of space for a lathe if you fancy some turning. I bought mine on a whim really and I must say turning can become quite addictive.

Hand tools - you will know already what you want and use. You will need some sort of sharpening station.

I would strongly recommend that you use this forum and others to spot second hand deals, monitor eBay and Gumtree and over time you will find good quality tools at much better than new prices.

Feel free to come over to my workshop, have a look at what I have ended up with and learn from my mistakes if you like. I make plenty of mistakes.

 

[gucu]

Hi All

Thank you so much for all the replies. I have spent some considering the best way to reply to all the advice.

1. Future projects include:
a. A bed for my oldest daughter.
b. A wardrobe and chest of drawers for the same daughter
c. Table and storage furniture for the same daughter!

Previously I have simply butted wood together and screwed. I up my game by using wood glue more recently! But I am now far more interested in creating stronger joints. I have watched videos of people using a table saw to cut wood at a certain height and create joints through this method. Can I do this with a different saw?

d. A box for storing nick knacks and memories. Roughly 18" x 12" with a lid.
e. A french cleat system for clothes and shelves.
f. Outdoor bench and swing.

If I buy a table saw I am concerned that in my shed I will be unable to use it to saw wood 8ft in length (plywood panels). Our local timber store is happy to saw wood down for a price.
If I buy a table saw what blades do I buy, do I need power or speed or both? I don't know how to buy?

How do I decide on a router please? The answer above talked about one with a 1/2" collet....?

One of the tools that people seem to be universally suggesting is a sander. But how do I decide what to buy please?

Huge thanks for all the help and advice.

Rich

 

[rdesign]

my advice.

you have got some great advice already. from what you want to make a track saw and a planer thicknesses sounds very useful.

track saw can do almost everything a table saw can, but doesn't take up the space.

you can get a cheap router to start with or buy good buy once. they all do the same thing. its the bits that our important to spend some money on! cheap router cutters don't hold their edge for long enough.

you ask about joinery I use a router to cut my mortices and a router table with a mitre gauge to cut the tenons. works like a dado blade in a table saw that you probably have seen on youtube. you can also do dovetail joints or finger joints with some jigs but by hand they are enjoyable also.

a set of sharp chisels, a accurate try square, a good tendon saw, coping saw and hand plane will get you started after that buy what you need when you need it.

a drill and driver combo will help with the shed build I have the milwalkee also and its great but if you have a cordless already might not be needed.
when you buy a chop saw don't buy cheap. they don't cut straight and have to much play when fully extended. the bosch or dewalt would be my choice.

Regards Richard
and good luck

 

[DiscoStu]

I started out a couple of years ago and I bought a table saw - hardly used it. I find I use a mitre saw and band saw a lot more. It does depend on what you're doing though. A while after I started I bought a track saw and if you have any sheet work to do is recommend that.

I bought a Triton router and table. The router is fab the table isn't great and I may well change it at some point.

16' square isn't a huge space so try to plan your workshop carefully. I'd suggest putting all big machines on castors so you can move them about. Also please don't forget dust extraction.

I bought a cheap disc / belt sander and a £100 pillar drill from Machine mart. They are both a bit cheap and cheerful but I do use both quite a lot. The pillar drill gets a lot more us than I ever thought it would and would be stuff that I would buy again. Machine mart regularly do VAT free days so you pay the non vat price and I often tend to wait for these and then buy a few bits. I bought some of their F clamps which I find pretty good and they are a lot cheaper than the best clamps out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gucu]

Thanks for the replies. I am now beginning to see my list starting. This is where I am now.

Pre-shed purchase:
1. Chop saw

Shed Purchase
1. Plunge router
2. Belt Planer
3. Pillar drill

Thank you so much for all the tips. I feel confident that I am buying the correct kit now.

Rich

P.S. Pics of the shed build to follow.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I would advise that the first thing you need (after the shed) is a decent bench and the few hand tools needed to make it, There are many designs but the easiest way to go is to follow Paul Sellers bench making videos. As far as power tools go there are two reasons to want a powered machine 1 because they are faster 2 because they are easier/more accurate.
Now number one is undoubtedly true, although not with all tasks and sometimes for one offs set up times can actually make them slower. Number 2 is very questionable. Learning accuracy with hand tools is not as hard as you may think Proper technique and sharp tools can give very accurate results. Sure a chop saw well set up will give anyone perfect square cuts first time, however a handsaw and a plane will give you equally good results after a week or two of practice and take up very little space. As has been mentioned routers are fast but can ruin a piece of wood in a fraction of a second.
Saying all of this I have a full compliment of powered tools (except a morticer) but if I was staring a new workshop just for wood working the first tool I would want is a decent bandsaw because ripping by hand is very slow, and re sawing wide boards by hand is only for re-enactment enthusiasts (in my opinion). The second tool is a decent planer thicknesser and chip extraction. For most work I will smooth boards with a handplane after using the planer thicknesser, but the time savings of dimensioning by machine are very real. The next powered tool I would want is a track saw, but only if I was planning to use sheet goods.
Table saws can be useful and I often use one, but it is perfectly feasible to work efficiently without one, and they are space hungry and potentially dangerous. There is school of thought that they are the essential heart of a modern workshop, personally I don't agree.
Routers are noisy,messy and dangerous. They can speed up some tasks but often jig making and set up times can mean they are slower than doing tasks by hand.
A pillar drill is indispensable for metal work but you can do without it for wood work
I use sanders at work for paint prep but if you learn to use a hand plane and scrappers they are not really necessary for wood working.
These are only my opinions but the more you do things by hand the more skills you will learn and the more enjoyable it will be and you will spend less money (although saving money requires the prudent purchase of decent second hand tools, top quality new hand tools can be extremely expensive. You will find some excellent advise here in the hand tools section).
Enjoy, Paddy

 

[AJB Temple]

That's quite a tough view on routers Paddy! I use mine quite a bit and have done ever since pretty much day 1 of doing woodwork seriously. However, safety is transformed with the use of a router table. A Trend Mk III is not expensive and has a wide array of safety devices fitted, including a no voltage off switch, extraction arrangements, overhead see through safety guard, anti kick back and anti lift fences, and a push stick.

Spot on re the bench, agree 100%. As I said in my original post, big, heavy and make it yourself to be rigid. When I first started out forums did not exist and I managed for a long time with a flat panel door on two trestles! I followed that up with Sjobergs bench which looked good but is nowhere near rigid or heavy enough. These days I would make the bench my first project if I was starting from scratch.

 

[Paddy Roxburgh]

I do use routers at work and have the woodrat jig. If I have a large run of stuff then routers are very useful (indeed see my thread asking about rail and stile bits). However if I was only making stuff for a hobby I wouldn't use one as I find hand work much more enjoyable and much less likely to go disastrously wrong.
I never really got any proper training in woodwork and for many years I thought that i needed machines to compensate for my lack of skill. Over the last few years I have realised that doing stuff by hand is not actually that hard and try to avoid machines when the speed advantages are not that great. I have a bench at home in my shed and don't use any machines there as I only make things in my spare time for family and friends and it takes as long as it takes, although I do sometimes prep timber on the bandsaw and pt at work to take home.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If I had to get rid of all my power tools bar one I would keep the one I don't think anyone's mentioned - a (very) good jigsaw.

 

[gucu]

Ok so I have got a lot of good advice from this forum including the encouragement to use hand tools. So I am starting a project and have posted a new topic here for folks to comment on.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/my-first-non-bodge-project-t96752.html

Thanks for all the help.

Rich