Starting a sash window business

[Woodcrafts]

You might need to be FENSA registered. Otherwise as I understand it, and I may well be wrong so please corect me, all replacement doors and windows will need to be inspected by the Local Authority’s Building Inspector.

 

[jasonB]

As you are only talking of replacing the sashes I think you will be OK without FENSA as it could be classed as repair but you may get a job where the whole one needs replacing and will need BCO to certify it or FENSA.

Jason

 

[flanajb]

BCO to certify it or FENSA.

Haha, these stupid accreditations make me laugh. The Government has created so many of them that soon you won't be able to hang a shelf unless you are qualified. Still, I suppose it keeps people in jobs and the economy turning.

Now where can I do the, is it a 1 or 2 day FENSA course ?

 

[Mr Mike]

In my experience, double glazed sashes are only effective when fitted complete with new corresponding box sashes as well.

I've come across a lot of new double glazed sashes fitted into the old original box frames, and the poor fit due to the irregularities in the old frame, have rendered their noise reduction qualities practically useless. They would definitely need to be fitted with draughtproofing at the very least, as it's these gaps around the parting beads / staff beads / meeting rails etc. through which sound travels.

I think a lot of customers, in London anyway, are conned into having new sashes fitted into the old frames.

In my own opinion, it's far better to keep the original windows and draughtproof them effectively. If noise really is a big issue....if you're on a main road for example, then the only truly effective solution I've come across is secondary double glazing....which is not very pretty in my opinion. Failing that, then new double glazed sashes in new frames.

Personally, I think they look out of place on period buildings.

I work as a domestic carpenter and joiner in and around Greenwich, London.

I hope my comments aren't received too negatively, but I'm often asked by customers (who've spent a lot of money) on new sashes in their old original frames, how I can improve on their noise reduction. I think many of the smaller franchise companies are a racket to be honest with you.

 

[flanajb]

In my experience, double glazed sashes are only effective when fitted complete with new corresponding box sashes as well.

I've come across a lot of new double glazed sashes fitted into the old original box frames, and the poor fit due to the irregularities in the old frame, have rendered their noise reduction qualities practically useless. They would definitely need to be fitted with draughtproofing at the very least, as it's these gaps around the parting beads / staff beads / meeting rails etc. through which sound travels.

I think a lot of customers, in London anyway, are conned into having new sashes fitted into the old frames.

In my own opinion, it's far better to keep the original windows and draughtproof them effectively. If noise really is a big issue....if you're on a main road for example, then the only truly effective solution I've come across is secondary double glazing....which is not very pretty in my opinion. Failing that, then new double glazed sashes in new frames.

Personally, I think they look out of place on period buildings.

I work as a domestic carpenter and joiner in and around Greenwich, London.

I hope my comments aren't received too negatively, but I'm often asked by customers (who've spent a lot of money) on new sashes in their old original frames, how I can improve on their noise reduction. I think many of the smaller franchise companies are a racket to be honest with you.

I agree with your points about draft protection, but I have noticed a massive reduction in outside noise with double glazed units. You also don't get the condensation problem either like you do with single glazed units. To me, both of those are massive improvements

 

[JFC]

Fensa isnt a 1-2 day course . You make a window and they check to see if its any good . If it is they let you join and do spot checks on your jobs . You also need to prove to them that all insurance policies and other paper work are in place .
Much easier to get the local BCO out to check it if you need too .

 

[SNight]

I will second what mr mike has said. I do an awful lot of renovation on sliding sash windows, and I would say 90% of the time the original boxes are never square, due to settlement and movement. Sometimes it is unoticable until you remove the old sashes, as all the components (Linings, arc's, etc) have settled the same as the box.

It can be a real nightmare, fitting a new pair of sashes into the box, as you have to have them meet level in the middle, but they also have to slide easy between the pulley stiles. This can be very difficult to achieve. Anything that is not parallel and square will cause the sashes to bump and stick as you slide them up or down.

Again I don't want to sound negative, but it is worth bearing in mind. Here is an interesting link to an article by English Heritage on the subject.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.21387

 

[Mr Mike]

I think you're misunderstanding me flanajb, I'm not disputing the benefits of double glazed units in snug fitting frames.......I'm disputing the benefits of double glazed units fitted into 150 - 200 year old box frames. It is the gaps around the sliding sashes that the noise travels through......hence my recommendation of effective draughtproofing. A reduction in noise is a happy by-product of draughtproofing as these gaps between the sliding sashes and the frames are closed up.

Of course double glazed sashes in new box frames with draughtproofing give the best results.

If a customer didn't want the disruption of new box frames, then I would recommend simply effective draughtproofing of their original single glazed windows. They're always pleasantly surprised at the corresponding noise reduction as well as the elimination of draughts.

Also, with modern epoxy resins, most original sashes are easily repaired. New bottom rails can be bonded in with these resins, new cill sections, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't consider starting a sash window business, I'm just saying that new double glazed sliding sashes are only as good / effective as the box frames they're fitted in. It's just something to bear in mind, that's all.....

 

[flanajb]

I think you're misunderstanding me flanajb, I'm not disputing the benefits of double glazed units in snug fitting frames.......I'm disputing the benefits of double glazed units fitted into 150 - 200 year old box frames. It is the gaps around the sliding sashes that the noise travels through......hence my recommendation of effective draughtproofing. A reduction in noise is a happy by-product of draughtproofing as these gaps between the sliding sashes and the frames are closed up.

Of course double glazed sashes in new box frames with draughtproofing give the best results.

If a customer didn't want the disruption of new box frames, then I would recommend simply effective draughtproofing of their original single glazed windows. They're always pleasantly surprised at the corresponding noise reduction as well as the elimination of draughts.

Also, with modern epoxy resins, most original sashes are easily repaired. New bottom rails can be bonded in with these resins, new cill sections, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't consider starting a sash window business, I'm just saying that new double glazed sliding sashes are only as good / effective as the box frames they're fitted in. It's just something to bear in mind, that's all.....

Points taken on board. I must admit that I have only done my own and the frames were pretty square, but I can see how if they are not it can be a real headache

 

[JFC]

I must admit that I have only done my own

Thats the whole point of the oh so funny FENSA :roll:

FENSA stands for the Fenestration Self-Assessment Scheme. It has been set up by the Glass and Glazing Federation (GGF) and other industry bodies with Government encouragement in response to the current Building Regulations for England and Wales.

When having windows and doors replaced homeowners must comply with current thermal peformance standards and ensure that they get a certificate of compliance from FENSA or from Local Authority Building Control. FENSA also enables companies that install replacement windows and doors to self certify compliance under these Building Regulations.

Crazy i know but it is the law now and a heavy fine for any fitter not complying with building regulations as they should know better .

 

[Steve-Sash]

Hi, I own my own sash window company, Sash Repair Services in the Bath and Bristol area and what I found is, that the money is in the draught proofing. As its already been said The listed buildings you wont be able to change to d/g any way and where I am there are a lot of listed. What you will find is that the boxes can vary from 34mm to 48mm and you will struggle to get d/g into 34mm. You can do it but you end up with no profile. Again the weights become a problem and you have to use the spiral springs ,,,, But definitely a market for it. Go for it I would say, just offer your customers every option...good luck