Starter sharpening stones

[D_W]

For me I was taught to sharpen with oilstones freehand with an edge bevel, then I read various magazine articles and bought waterstones (a lot of messy phaff), a basic honing guide (ok but no better than freehand) then a veritas guide (just couldn't get on with it) so now back to freehand on oilstones and a strop but can't get a really sharp edge hence watching the video and reading this. I can't justify over £200 on a set of 3 Eze-laps but am tempted to try the Vaunt stones from ITS.

By the way, if you want to test what you're getting, get one of your guides out - grind at 25, hone at 30 and then use some kind of honing compound on softwood or medium hardwood and freehand just the tip of the tool you're finishing. If something isn't sharp, it's generally because the edge isn't getting finished, but it may be at a level that you can't see with the naked eye.

I wouldn't bother buying a bunch of diamond hones, etc, that's likely not what's lacking.

 

[Jacob]

Different strokes for different folks I guess...

I've got to the end of this thread so far and so far I am non the wiser. I think it is one of those subjects where there's no wrong way and there are a lot of right ways that suit different people. I watched Paul Sellers sharpening a set of budget chisels first using 3 grades of wet and dry on a glass plate and not too successfully, then moving to 3 grades of Eze-Lap diamond plates followed by a leather strop. His technique is fast and doesn't include an edge bevel and yet he demonstrated how his technique transformed a budget chisel into a razor sharp tool.
(1) How to Sharpen a Chisel | Paul Sellers - YouTube

For me I was taught to sharpen with oilstones freehand with an edge bevel, then I read various magazine articles and bought waterstones (a lot of messy phaff), a basic honing guide (ok but no better than freehand) then a veritas guide (just couldn't get on with it) so now back to freehand on oilstones and a strop but can't get a really sharp edge hence watching the video and reading this. I can't justify over £200 on a set of 3 Eze-laps but am tempted to try the Vaunt stones from ITS.

He's good Sellers. He overdoes it a bit with the flattening and we don’t call it “initialising or prepping” - we just call it sharpening.
Never so easy as when brand new from the maker - they always seem to have that slight concave surface which makes sharpening very easy.
He goes on about the "burr" and yes this is the key essential thing - you haven't got there until you raise a burr across the whole width of the edge.
Instead of the Eze lap just go for medium and fine Norton India.

 

[Adam W.]

I manage to get an edge with a red India, a bit of slate and a belt on a stick. It produces an edge which cuts end grain of construction grade spruce to a polished surface in no time, and it suits me Sir.

Although, funny enough, I have been accused, in this very parish no less, of having a blinkered approach to sharpening. I also have a drawer full of diamond stones which never see the light of day, go figure.

Remember the bur only needs to be a tiny thing.

 

[Jacob]

Blinkered is best IMHO. There are too many distractions out there - glittering gadgets bristling with brass knobs, exotic stones, expensive machines, honing fluids more expensive than whisky, a whole army of deranged evangelists with magic solutions.
Best to plod forward, blinkers on, in a straight line. Keep it simple and do some woodwork instead!

 

[D_W]

I have been accused, in this very parish no less, of having a blinkered approach to sharpening.

By who? The guide police? I recall you taking offense at my comment about using pedestrian stones, which was a bit premature, because I also use pedestrian stones (and prefer them).

The sentiment around now that there's some magic bean for sharpening is nonsense.. (E.g., shapton glasstones using seeded gel or whatever else stuff that's 10% better for several multiples in price, and such stuff was designed for lower heat power grinding in the first place).

 

[D_W]

Blinkered is best IMHO. There are too many distractions out there - glittering gadgets bristling with brass knobs, exotic stones, expensive machines, honing fluids more expensive than whisky, a whole army of deranged evangelists with magic solutions.
Best to plod forward, blinkers on, in a straight line. Keep it simple and do some woodwork instead!

Yet you can't actually provide any advice to someone who is coming up short, and by the edges you show, don't have much to compare to.

Everyone who has a sharpening problem is either coming up short finishing the edge, dealing with geometry or using substandard tools. The first is probably 75%, the second is probably 24% and the last is probably 1%.

Method doesn't really matter. What matters is giving someone an idea of how they may actually finish a job, especially if they're not looking to create a coarse edge that they have to sand after or refresh unnecessarily often. If someone is hacking up wet wood for later finish or planing doorway bits in a rickety house, then that doesn't matter much. If they're trying to finish plane figured wood, the aim is different.

 

[Jacob]

..... If something isn't sharp, it's generally because the edge isn't getting finished, ......Everyone who has a sharpening problem is either coming up short finishing the edge,........

You mean there's no point in sharpening the handle end?
Actually D_W If something isn't sharpening, it's always because the edge isn't getting finished. I think everybody knows that - it's kinda really obvious. You haven't discovered a secret.
The key indicator that you have reached the edge is being able to feel a burr. It may take a few strokes to finish it off but you have arrived at the destination. This is true however you do it, micro-bevels, convex bevel, one flat bevel, 25º, 30º, 35º, bevels both sides, ruler trick, without a ruler trick, with magic stones, with your eyes closed, standing on one leg, even with a honing jig!

 

[Ttrees]

For those who don't like oil
If the ITS/Ultex ones aren't half price, and if you can't find similar priced hones like it somewhere...
The cheap thin diamond hones for two or three quid are good value aswell.
Expected the bond to fail as it was used for a while before it got epoxied to a chunk of granite, still holding up with no sign of coming loose.
Ed69 was able to find a whole range of other ones other than the 400 and 1000.

 

[Adam W.]

By who? The guide police? I recall you taking offense at my comment about using pedestrian stones, which was a bit premature, because I also use pedestrian stones (and prefer them).

The sentiment around now that there's some magic bean for sharpening is nonsense.. (E.g., shapton glasstones using seeded gel or whatever else stuff that's 10% better for several multiples in price, and such stuff was designed for lower heat power grinding in the first place).

Semantics, not stones.

And I didn't take offence for the record.

 

[D_W]

Semantics, not stones.

And I didn't take offence for the record.

My apologies, I took it as such. I vastly prefer a stable "non flashy" stone to the expensive new paint by number stuff, and I've seen pretty much everything in non-powered honing (including natural stones that are approaching four figures). Sometimes people get offended by that or start talking about abrasive grading in $300 synthetic stones...

...and they're still not getting the scratches from those synthetic stones to the tip of the tool.