Standard woodworking glues

[user 30603]

When I were young we had Cascamite and PVA in various grades (1980s). Cascamite has its place for gap filling and a very slow cure which for a bodger like me is a bonus. PVA in an appropriate grade is a default especially when hand planing. PU is useful for sticking your fingers together. So where has Titebond come from? Is it just the regrettable British assumption that anything an American is paid to promote on YouTube must be wonderful? (in brewing as well as woodworking). It seems to me that the strength of a joint is mostly a function of the design and preparation and the glue should barely be relevant apart from moisture resistance.

I suspect glue is squirted out of a chemical factory at about fourpence a litre and the difference between that and the price you pay is the cost of bribing YouTubers and shipping a low-cost industrial product half way round the world. There's probably something just as good being made in 'uddersfield. I also think that there's much to be said for sticking to as few glues as possible (D4, say) so you don't need to worry about shelf life.

De Havilland Mosquitos performed well enough in a challenging application without the wonder of Titebond (or indeed PVA). Or is there any technical advantage to it in certain niche applications?

David impersonating a grumpy old man.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Mosquitos were glued together with Aerolite (hence the name).

 

[johnnyb]

Titebond 3 is all I use and like anything you get used to it. I like it's thin and easy to apply and quite slow to set. Other whites glues whilst cheaper are very thick and tend to set far to quickly. Anything needing mixing is a pain in general use.

 

[profchris]

Musical instrument makers use mainly Titebond Original or hot hide glue (though epoxy and CA also have a place for some joints and some repairs).

Titebond Original seems better in stressed joints than PVA and is repairable with some effort. Hot hide glue has a learning curve, but is the one repairable glue where a guitar bridge won't slide towards the neck if the instrument is left in a hot car, and has major advantages for joints which might need repair in the later life of the instrument (which can be long - I have a ukulele, a banjo and a tenor guitar all from the 1920s or very early 1930s and all good for another century or more).

If I made furniture I'd probably use normal PVA for most things though.

Currently struggling with a snapped double bass neck, which will go together nicely and nearly invisibly with hot hide glue once I can work out the jigs to hold it in place for glueing!

 

[Cabinetman]

Titebond 3 is all I use and like anything you get used to it. I like it's thin and easy to apply and quite slow to set. Other whites glues whilst cheaper are very thick and tend to set far to quickly. Anything needing mixing is a pain in general use.

Now strangely enough my experience is the exact opposite, tried Titebond once and hated that it is so runny, makes a right mess! I always use Evostick- the blue one, and have never found it setting too quickly. I have also used it lots of times for quite sharp cornered laminating which people say will “creep” and after years never had a problem. As you rightly say it’s what you get used to, also correct re glues that need mixing, no!

 

[johnnyb]

I use 2 glubots (thin noxzzle thick nozzle)which suits it well. I spread with a stiffish brush. I much prefer it's low viscosity(once you've adjusted) it allows very quick work and easy wetting. Also easy clamping when sticking 2 flat bits together.

 

[johnnyb]

I also think the green resin w is/was amongst the strongest glues on pine.

 

[XTiffy]

Profchris,
As a antique furniture restorer I used hide glue almost exclusively. As you say the problem is clamping a joint. I used to use a sheet of melamine and various pieces of shaped wood fixed to it often with hot melt glue gun to enable clamping pressure at the right point.

 

[Jake]

Titebond Original seems better in stressed joints than PVA

Not taking issue with your view, but it is a PVA glue. 'Aliphatic resins' are tackifier additives not the base glue itself.

 

[profchris]

Not taking issue with your view, but it is a PVA glue. 'Aliphatic resins' are tackifier additives not the base glue itself.

I might have known and forgotten that, as with so much! I should have written 'standard PVA' I guess.

Thinking more, I should add that the preference for Titebond Original is also because it cures harder than standard PVA. Joints like neck, bridge, fretboard have to be rigid to avoid dissipating the string's energy = too quiet guitar.

 

[recipio]

I agree that Titebond is overpriced and Titebond 3 finishes a brown colour that is more suited to dark woods. I recently had a small hammer which snapped its handle in a spiral break and I reglued it with regular PVA - stronger than the wood itself !
Best to buy glue in small amounts as even PVA has a shelf life.

 

[TRITON]

I might have known and forgotten that, as with so much! I should have written 'standard PVA' I guess.

Thinking more, I should add that the preference for Titebond Original is also because it cures harder than standard PVA. Joints like neck, bridge, fretboard have to be rigid to avoid dissipating the string's energy = too quiet guitar.

I was under the impression hide glue was the preferred glue for guitar making because theres no risk of creep

 

[profchris]

I was under the impression hide glue was the preferred glue for guitar making because theres no risk of creep

Factories like Martin only use hot hide glue for high end models, it's not well suited to a production line. Small builders use it much more, but some are happy with Titebond. Everyone uses more than one glue type, for different joints, depending on what suits their working method best.

I've just repaired the snapped neck on my double bass with hide glue. I use it a lot, and if I've done a bad job and the repair fails hide glue makes it easy to re-do the repair.

 

[thetyreman]

I was under the impression hide glue was the preferred glue for guitar making because theres no risk of creep

yes that's true, I glued on a fretboard with HHG and there has been no creep at all, it's also used on acoustic guitar bridges, works best with cam clamps though because you have a very very short open time, about 30 seconds so it requires serious prep work and rehersal before gluing a joint, but I have been amazed by it and how strong it is, I've also used it for a rub joint for jointing, no need for clamps in that case, and it pulls itself together as it sets.

 

[Ed Weber]

I suggest that some of you visit the Titebond website and see what's there.
https://www.titebond.com/all/glues
There's no need to use TB3 on anything other than outdoor applications. Original TB is strong enough for just about anything that won't get wet. They make dark TB for darker species like walnut and dozens of other kinds, even hide glue.

 

[TRITON]

I suggest that some of you visit the Titebond website and see what's there.
https://www.titebond.com/all/glues
There's no need to use TB3 on anything other than outdoor applications. Original TB is strong enough for just about anything that won't get wet. They make dark TB for darker species like walnut and dozens of other kinds, even hide glue.

I use titebond 2 dark for the timber like bubinga, American black walnut and mahogany. I find its better suited as its pretty much a dark brown almost black line and blends so much better. Though it works best with a very close fit.
Thats said, black walnut can tend to be a bit greyer and make joins stand out somewhat and while it works well, its a case of better than standard TB or anything else.

 

[mr rusty]

If you use Accoya you only have the choice of PU or epoxy because nothing else works.

 

[RobNichols]

Who uses one glue?

One of my lessons learnt is to use different glues for different tasks.

I like hide glue for joints and general joinery. I like the way it lubricates the joint before it grips. It's good that it can be undone. And TBH I like the nostalgia of using it.

I use PVA for smaller jobs and particularly things I know I'll never want to take apart. To fix a broken stick for example.

CA glue is great for small repairs. Especially blowout.

And if there's gaps to be filled I reach for the epoxy.

 

[Keith 66]

My Dad was an Aerolite fan & always had a jar mixed up on his bench, although its a UF glue like Cascamite the latter being mixed at time of use tends to have air bubbles in it which must weaken it. From experience repairing wooden sailing dinghies & spars i have found that UF glues tend to have a lifespan of approx 40 years after which they can get brittle & fail. Resorcinol is good but far too finnicky & mix critical for most of us.
Epoxies West, SP systems & others are excellent but their UV resistance is poor so clear finishes are a bad idea.
I use Titebond 3 quite a lot & its easy & really works well.
PU like Gorrilla glue i dont use for anything structural as it has worse UV resistance to epoxy & its foam nature means its relatively weak.
I also use hide glue & for some stuff it still cant be beaten. In the end you have to pick the right one for the job.
The one i havent missed is the old Beetle resin glue, useless stuff, An old chippy i worked with swore by it. I also saw several huge failures where the stuff just let go for no apparent reason.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I remember some 40 years ago reading an interview with a furniture maker, he was asked what glue he preferred. He said Aerolite, and when asked why he said it was good enough to keep his mosquitoes in the air through the war so it was good enough for his furniture.