stand alone or multifunction

[shaun]

hello there

ive been a joiner now since leaving school and worked in many weird and wonderful jobs, from site work to bespoke, im looking to go more into bespoke kitchens, bedrooms, shop counters that sort of thing, i currently have a van full of lovely dewalt routers, flip saws etc but have been looking at the multifunction machines to base a workshop round, my first question is are these any good or are stand alone dedicated machines better, i havent really looked at a particular one as yet as id like to know if any rates these bad or good

i will have many questions about workshop setup as id like to get it right irst time if possible

thanks

shaun

 

[MattMoore]

hi Shaun,

A friend of mine has been using a Robland multi function machine for several years now. it has a 3m sliding carriage which made breaking down sheets a breeze. the planer and thicknesser had slightly limited capacities, but more than enough for cabinet making. I used it several times and it was a pleasure to use.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

 

[joez71]

Hi Shaun,

I have a combination machine and its been excellent, but the main reason for getting this machine is to save space. Depending on workshop size I would say:

Small Workshop = Combination Machine
Medium Workshop = Seperate Saw/Shaper and Jointer/thicknesser
Large Workshop = All Seperate Machines

I think most european multifunction type machines are better than the generic asian machines everyone seeems to be selling these days. If It was in my budget I would serious look at those brands no matter what layout I chose.

NOTE: I am in Australia so your options might slightly differ from mine.

good luck


joez

 

[Dodge]

Shaun,

This is a difficult question to answer and depends alot upon your circumstances - if your workshop space is limited and you are not working on the machine to make a profit then combination machines are great - usually costing less than the comparative separate machines.

With this said though they do have the major limitations of always having to swap components, disable sections to use other parts of the machine and this adds a considerable amount of time to projects when you are being paid.

I used to have combination machines, initially one and then two when the limitations on the single machine became apparent - since then though I have now gone for stand alone machines.

My recommendation to anyone would be if you have the space and the budget would be go for stand alone machines every time but you will be the one using your workshop so make sure you are happy with your purchases!

HTH

Rog

 

[shaun]

Thanks for the replys, and they have confirmed what i was thinking. Im still in the very early stages of going down this route and need to actually find a workshop with viable rent etc. (missus wont let me fill our back garden with 120ft sq workshop, which makes sense to me but not her and the kids)

My big concern is my initial outlay as i like to pay good money for my tools as you do get what you pay for but i dont want to buy the best i can afford then end up with no work, as i have rent, insurances etc. I will continue to work as a joiner and hopefully transend more into a workshop.i

My favoured brand has always been dewalt as i mentioned, but there range of workshop tools is limited, so this leads me to another question, which brands are prefered for workshop use.

 

[tomatwark]

I would agree with Roger that stand alone machines are the best way forward.

As for makes the choice is vast, it really depends on your budget and also the workshop you end up in, if it has 3 phase or only single phase.

Have chat with the local machinery dealers and see what they have also keep an eye on ebay.

I would say you need at least 500 sq feet and even that will be a squeeze, I have about 1500 and really could do with another 500.

If you are doing kitchens, bedrooms and shop counters I guess you will looking to use MFC and veneered sheets

To cut MFC and veneered cleanly and quickly you really need a panel saw with a scorer, this will take up a lot of room, you could get away without one but it is a real pain if you are trying to make money.

It has been discussed before on here but to get going it is going to cost you in the region of 10k.

Tom

 

[Wildman]

having used seperate machines for many years I am beginning to appreciate the space savings of a multi purpose machine. Albiet a coronet lathe with loads of attachments. Kept on wheels it allows a much better use of space. I will be clearing a lot of stand alone machines out shortly, I need the space to hold a dance, hee hee.

 

[katellwood]

I'm on my third combi. Started off with a Luren C210B, then went to a Felder BF5 and now use a Felder CF731 all have been excellent for the space I have (500 sq ft)

One further note you may wish to consider especially if you look after them (and you get single phase) is that I had both the Lurem and the first Felder for approx 10 yrs respectively and made money on both when I sold them

 

[beech1948]

I have a Felder CF741 combi.

I'm not sure where all this talk about saving space comes from. I frequently cut 8x4 sheets and occasionally larger; timber is broken down from 75mm thick slabs into just over final sizes and some of these are 8 to 10 ft long.

My Felder is in a space that measures 5mx4m or roughly 16ftx 12.5ft due to all of the panel handling, movement around the combi not just front to back but side to side ( eg P/T sections).

I have some wall storeage for timber at one side and a couple of floor cabs at the other but ALL of this space gets used when working on the combi.

I think your first decision is to see what size area you can acquire. looks like a minium of 500 sq ft and much better at 700 sft or larger.

If it has 3phase then you may find that older 3ph standalone machinery will be cheaper than a combi.

Also much is claimed for all combis but be aware. My choice was for Robland or Felder any thing less than the Robland may to much of a compromise on accuracy and quality eg Lurem is too small by far.

Al

 

[Jacob]

Nothing wrong with the quality of combis as such.
They don't save as much space as you might think as you need to be able to work from all 4 sides, but they save a bit of cash.

 

[JonnyD]

This would be the tools i would want to start making kitchens and bedrooms profitably from day 1 and estimated used/new cost.

Essential Tools

Sliding Table saw with scoring blade minimum 2.4m carriage used for breaking down sheet goods into carcase parts and cutting of solid wood for doors etc £2.5k+ new 5k+

Spindle Moulder with Powerfeed used for grooving and profiling of doors and creating tenons cornices etc used 1k+ new 2k+

Tooling for Spindle moulder sawblades etc 1k should get you going but you will need to add more as you go along

Planer Thicknesser 300mm wide minimum used 1k new 2k you could go for separates here but i think a decent combo machine is better than 2 average separates

Festool Domino for jointing carcases best £650 you will spend

Some kind of spraying facility allow up to 1.5k here to get your spray setup and booth sorted either with hvlp turbine system , compressor or AAA sprayer which will cost you more.

Dust Extraction system and ductwork etc allow £750 minimum


Not essential but usefull

Bandsaw depending upon capacity £300 to £1k

Speed sander a 600mm wide version will cost from about 3k used

Edge sander good for shooting in doors finishing £500 used 1k new

Edge banding machine £400 for a handheld hot air model or 1.5k for a portable hotmelt model or 2.5k + used for a standalone machine with trimmers etc

Probably forgot loads of things but you will need all the workshop essentials such as clamps (lots of them) hand tools , power sanders routers etc

As for brands the best british stuff is made by wadkin with others such as sedgwick multico cooksley . Imported stuff is either generic far eastern or better quality european . Quality european manufacturers are felder/hammer, scm, Minimax, Griggio , Altendorf to name a few.

cheers

Jon

 

[heimlaga]

What some of the others have said:
It all boils down to how great part of your average workyear you expect to spend in the shop. If you will earn the greater part of your income there that would also justify greater investements in a larger shop which in turn would speed up pruduction but also would eat more of your income.

For a small part time shop where you spend some two months a year (like I do) I would suggest a large and heavy combination machine. Is has a lower productivity than full size separate machines but it does a much better job than those small compact separates that are sold everywhere. I have a 1950-ies Stenberg KEV600 and it is absolutely perfect for my kind of use but it would be a bit insufficient for full time use. L'invincible also made some great combination machines in those days as did several other makers.

For a bigger shop wher you spend many months a year I would prefere separates. A combination machine is too slow and awkward for full time use. A planer/thicknesser would maybe be an exception but the rest of the machinery would be separates.

When it comes to choosing machines I would deffinitely buy secondhand. It doeas not matter whether the iron in a woodworking machine was cast 20 or 50 or even 100 years ago as long as the machine does it's job properly or can be fixed to do it's job properly.
Jonsered and L'invincible and Stenberg and Wadkin and Altendorf are just a few excamples of high end machinery brands on the secondhand market in Europe.

 

[shaun]

certainly a lot to chew over and all very informative, really the first thing i need to do is to find a workshop then go from there.

i intend it to start out as a part time shop where ill make components then install them myself, i like the customer satisfaction of bespoke work and love revealing finished peices. The big issue will be covering costs, and keeping the work steady.

I will keep an eye on ebay and the likes for machinery and will be posting more for advice in the near futre.

thanks again for the help its been spot on and ill have loads more questions in the near future.

shaun