Staff / parting bead with built in draft excluder

[flanajb]

Hi,

Having rennovated both our sash windows I think there is a business opportunity in sash window rennovation. I had to remake the sashes as they were so knackered and whilst remaking them I decided to use double glazed units. All of this was done without having to repplace the sash frame.

I was looking at the Ventrolla model and feel I could easily offer the same level of quality, the one outstanding point is where I can source parting and staff bead that already contains the draft excluder. Anyone have a link or know of a company that can supply this ?

Thanks

 

[tomatwark]

Reddiseals http://www.reddiseals.com/

or

Mighton Products http://www.mightonproducts.com/

Tom

 

[AndyT]

I can confirm that it's possible to offer this as a business service - there are people round here doing just that, at about £300 per window.

Being a tightwad who thinks he can do woodwork, I've just done the first three of six of our windows, using the beading from Reddiseals. A few tips:

1 The big time variable is how much stripping back of old paint you do - I stripped back to bare wood all round on ours. It took me all day to do one window (=2 sashes) and it was a longer day than I would like to be working for anyone else!

2 The new parting bead may be a bit thicker than the old so you may need to widen the groove or plane down the bead. Accuracy matters!
I went for only one length of draftproofer for each working surface, which I think is enough. You will see some drawings (maybe intended for new work) which have two strips all round. This needs grooves to be routed all round, whereas with the simple approach you only need to rout one groove on the parting bead of the lower sash.

3 Choose a period of consistently fine dry weather every day!

 

[Anonymous]

well can of worms has opened! if you choose to offer this service you must have the skills to machine the staff bead! its not hard. but depends on how good you are? it was my main source of income before i left it behind, staff bead needs a seal, aswell as the head and bottom rail, also the meeting rail if you do it properly. not all existing box frames aill allow you to increase the size of the weights needed for dg, if i can help you please pm me,

 

[flanajb]

Thanks for all of your replies. I am pretty handy with the machinery and really enjoyed making new sashes and repairing the frame which had to be spliced. On my way in this morning I did say to myself "just machine up your own staff / parting bead" as I have all of the kit.

My only concern is how you quote for this work as I can see it being a tricky one to get right. For instance, you tend to only find out the real damage when you have stripped back the paint. Plus, if you are working outside you may need to have a tower.

My plan would be to try and get in with the local council / conservation officer so that they recommend me when people enquire about what to do with their sash windows.

 

[Anonymous]

My only concern is how you quote for this work as I can see it being a tricky one to get right. For instance, you tend to only find out the real damage when you have stripped back the paint. Plus, if you are working outside you may need to have a tower.

qouting is easy, just have a good prod and poke at the timber and price fior what is required, as for needing a tower? wll box sash can be repaired from inside quite easy. just find a good supplier of the seals needed,
pm sent

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi,

Having rennovated both our sash windows I think there is a business opportunity in sash window rennovation. I had to remake the sashes as they were so knackered and whilst remaking them I decided to use double glazed units. All of this was done without having to repplace the sash frame.

I was looking at the Ventrolla model and feel I could easily offer the same level of quality, the one outstanding point is where I can source parting and staff bead that already contains the draft excluder. Anyone have a link or know of a company that can supply this ?

Thanks

Hi Flana,

Now that brings back memories. I wish I was able to gad about doing this for a living! I did this job (among other carpentry repairs) in the 1960s, working for a builder who had a Council Contract. The houses I worked on were all compulsorily purchased, 1800s buildings, and mostly were already falling down, or ready for demolition. It was filthy job, and all the windows I ever replaced will have long gone to the bonfires in the sky. The work was also repetitive, but still satisfying, once you had the the sashes working again. Happy Days!

The one tool I found indispensable was the 'mouse'. For those who don't know it, this was a small strip of lead sheet, folded around the end of a piece of string. It was used to feed the sash cord through the pulleys and out through the pockets, so you could hang the weights. (An art in itself!)

But then you already knew that Flan!

Have fun and make a lotta munnie!

Regards
John

 

[flanajb]

Hi John,

Thanks for the insight into repairing sash windows for a living. That is a slight concern of mine is that after a while it could become pretty repetitive after a while. But I suppose what job doesn't.

Thanks for the tip about the mouse. I wasn't actually aware of that.

Kind regards

Justin

 

[Benchwayze]

Justin,

Re the mouse... You are welcome. It does save a lot of swearing when you are trying to reeve the sash-cord through the pulley!
The sash stiles had grooves in them to accept the cord. I can't recall now if it was a square rebate or a groove cut with a cove moulding plane.
But as long as the cord is just below the surface of the stile it won't rub on the casing.

You'll appreciate this was 40/45 years ago. Memory plays tricks! I seem to recall you don't nail the cord right to the top of the stile, so there is a bit of 'slack', to go around the pulley, and there wont be a tendency for the cord to pull away, as it goes through the pulley, when you slide the inner sash up to the top.

The biggest enemy of the wooden sash window frame btw, was paint; I.e. too many layers of it!



As I said.. Long time ago. So, if I have put you wrong you can kick me up my lower sash!

HTH

John

 

[petermillard]

The sash stiles had grooves in them to accept the cord. I can't recall now if it was a square rebate or a groove cut with a cove moulding plane. But as long as the cord is just below the surface of the stile it won't rub on the casing.

I've done a bit of sash window refurb work - just started one last week as it happens - and most of the sashes I've come across have a rounded groove for the cord that starts about 12mm deep at the top of the stile and tapers away to nothing around half/third of the way down. The cord is usually held in place with short clout nails, and in older sashes these grooves look like they've been shotgunned, they have so many holes in from cord changes over the years!

Most of the work I've done is in conservation areas, so I have to use timber parting beads if they're to be replaced - the Reddiseals stuff is pretty good and saves a lot of messing about. For a full refurb the staff and parting beads are replaced with new, and the sashes stripped back to the wood on the main faces then repaired as necessary, primed and painted - same with the boxes; as John says, it's mostly decades of paint that needs to be removed to get everything running freely. Cords are replaced if required, ditto pulleys, lifts and fasteners. FWIW my costs are typically £450 - £600 per window opening, depending on what's required, exactly, and I reckon on getting a pair of windows done every three days or so, working alone and given decent weather; I've done a complete opening in a day, but it was a long, hard day and not something I'd want to do day in, day out.

Word of caution re the mouse - they're easy to make up from a bit of lead flashing, but by their nature (short, slim) they're not especially heavy, so the temptation is to have a fine chord attached to them; just be aware that with a very fine cord it's easy for it to slip off the pulley and jam down the side against the axle; bugger of a thing to get it out when that happens - DAMHIKT!

Cheers, Pete

 

[Benchwayze]

Word of caution re the mouse - they're easy to make up from a bit of lead flashing, but by their nature (short, slim) they're not especially heavy, so the temptation is to have a fine chord attached to them; just be aware that with a very fine cord it's easy for it to slip off the pulley and jam down the side against the axle; pipper of a thing to get it out when that happens - DAMHIKT!

Cheers, Pete

I never had that happen to my mouse, but then we had an understanding. I made mine long, and put a bend in 'em. Or, maybe I was lucky! :mrgreen:

I used the galvanised plaster board nails to secure the cords, if I recall, but anything too long and you could foul the glass! I also used to give the sash cords a good rub of an old paraffin-wax candle too. They tended to last longer (I think).. But that was only if the lady ran a 'tight ship' (clean house) and made nice tea.

regards
John

 

[petermillard]

I never had that happen to my mouse, but then we had an understanding. I made mine long, and put a bend in 'em. Or, maybe I was lucky! :mrgreen:

Well yes, it's the kind of thing you only do once, but once is enough, lol!

Oh, and it seems "pipper" is the new "pineapple"...

Pete

 

[Benchwayze]

I never had that happen to my mouse, but then we had an understanding. I made mine long, and put a bend in 'em. Or, maybe I was lucky! :mrgreen:

Well yes, it's the kind of thing you only do once, but once is enough, lol!

Oh, and it seems "pipper" is the new "pineapple"...

Pete

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll have to give that a 'pippering' good try.

John! :wink:

 

[RogerS]

.....
My only concern is how you quote for this work as I can see it being a tricky one to get right. For instance, you tend to only find out the real damage when you have stripped back the paint. Plus, if you are working outside you may need to have a tower.

If you are working for an organisation as opposed to a private householder then you will need to be able to sign off the tower....and it has to be a correctly rated tower ..not a DIY jobbie...even though you and I know that the DIY one is fine. Or get the client to pay for scaffolding....but complete sash replacement including box frame is done (most times) from the inside. If you have a private client in a flat then you may still get a request for the bit of paper to sign off the tower from the managing agent/freeholder/whatever.

My plan would be to try and get in with the local council / conservation officer so that they recommend me when people enquire about what to do with their sash windows.

They are not allowed to.

Looking at the rates you guys are charging, I'm too cheap!