Spray Adhesive For Attaching Abrasive Sheets To Granite Tile

[pollys13]

Does anyone have any practical experience of sticking belt sander abrasive to granite tile, granite worktop saver, also to float glass?
If so what spray adhesive would they recommend and available in the UK, also the best way to remove the abrasive sheet?
Thanks.

 

[marcros]

would water and normal sandpaper (rather than belt sander abrasive) not work?

 

[pollys13]

In passing I did read about that approach but I don't think would be very effective. I'm thinking of Chris Schwarz , flattening sole he uses 80 & 120 grit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlYDipD_5s4. Also Paul Sellers uses same idea but different grits, How to flatten the sole of a plane |https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQyjLV92224
I contacted Mr Schwarz, via his Lost Art Press, his representative came back saying, 3M, Elmers whatever was available.
There are several 3M spray adhesives. I've Googled but seems to be no definite consensus on what to use. Thats why I'm asking here.

 

[--Tom--]

You can get PSA on a roll but have to pay more for the privilege

If you’re using cloth backed abrasive on a tile, putting it on a longer wooden board means you can nail it down with clout nails over the top, just be sure to pull it tight

 

[pollys13]

PSA is expensive, thanks for the tip, have you done that?

 

[pollys13]

Just found this, not totally sure if UK based, if they are PSA is more sensibly priced, not much more than a 3M 77 spray can.
http://www.metalclay.co.uk/3m-self-adhe ... -320-grit/
Spoke too soon, not wide enough.

 

[Trevanion]

Maybe it's just me (probably is just me ) but I've always found the spray adhesives a little clumpy sticking stuff down with it, so the surface of whatever I've stuck down is now a little lumpy and squidgy in places.

I much prefer a contact adhesive in a tin, pour a little out, spread it out very thinly on both pieces with a plastic spreader card, wait until both are tacky and stick them together with a little pressure and Voila! Something stuck to something else!

 

[Ttrees]

I can't recommend a decent adhesive, but I will mention that I find an adhesive stuck down to be an advantage, but not used in a way that I've seen before.
I have some fancy 3m self stick sandpaper you get in rolls, and have a strip stuck down to my lapping plate.
I can then lay the cheap rougher grits down on top and they stay put.
I cut the rolls in half lengthwise, and can cut them up into short less than the plane length strips for hollowing the middle out on planes,
because you will create a bow effect just lapping it without hollowing first, and you wont be able to tell from the scratch pattern, you would have to magic marker/blue the plane and see the middle high, or get out the feelers.
Handy having the fancy stuff on the plate for just a quick lick afterwards, just to to see that even polish.
I will have to peel it off of my old plate, and put it onto the flatter one I have, done this a couple of times and the glue seems really good on this stuff , and seems like it could be reactivated.
It might steer you to a good source if you search for the 3m stikit alternative
Tom

 

[ED65]

Maybe it's just me (probably is just me ) but I've always found the spray adhesives a little clumpy sticking stuff down with it, so the surface of whatever I've stuck down is now a little lumpy and squidgy in places.

It's not just you. It isn't too bad if you use a light spray (with consequent light hold) but the more you spray the worse the problem can become. Although better quality spray glues like 3M tend to minimise the problem I saw the price of a can of 77 recently and it was rather alarming compared to what we used to pay for it back when it was a commonplace in graphics studios!

I much prefer a contact adhesive in a tin, pour a little out, spread it out very thinly on both pieces with a plastic spreader card, wait until both are tacky and stick them together with a little pressure and Voila! Something stuck to something else!

Couldn't agree with this more.

Especially after trying some cheaper spray glue the other day (from our equivalent of Poundland) and it had exactly the problem you describe. Very impressed by its hold, but you just couldn't use it on anything thin that needed to stay very flat. I might try warming the can up next time, see if that helps.

 

[ED65]

Does anyone have any practical experience of sticking belt sander abrasive to granite tile, granite worktop saver, also to float glass?

Is this for lapping, for sharpening or both?

If so what spray adhesive would they recommend and available in the UK, also the best way to remove the abrasive sheet?

You might like to think about hide glue or starch paste. Sticking down is a slower process but water-based glues have the advantage come time to remove the abrasive as they can be soaked off just with water. No organic solvent required so cheaper, lower toxicity and less smelly.

 

[sunnybob]

I think everybody is overthinking this.

I use spray adhesive bought from a copy shop /stationers.
If you (heaven forbid :shock: ) read the instructions youre told to shake the can vigorously, and then spray from over a foot away. Lumps form when youre too close to the surface, or overspray what youve already done.

I use 5" wide belt sander from a roll and have no issues.
Make sure the granite is CLEAN! wipe with thinners. Allow to dry completely and then wipe with a clean rag. Shake and spray ONCE. allow to to tack dry, and lay the grit down from one end smoothing as you go.

Its worth noting though that just because its granite, its not necessarily flat. Its expensive to grind granite to test bed tolerances, ordinary worktop doesnt need that and might not be that. Check carefully before going through all of the above.

 

[pollys13]

Is this for lapping, for sharpening or both?

Lapping the sole and the back of iron, using wet stone grinder for sharpening and hand strop on leather to keep edge, or use grinders leather wheel.

 

[pollys13]

"I much prefer a contact adhesive in a tin " This sounds the way to go, cheers
I've read about using a hair dryer or a hot air gun to loosen up the adhesive and I have a tin of thinners but would avoid the hot air gun on my sheet of float glass though....... and keep it away from the thinners.

Is there a brand of contact adhesive, type you would recommend for what I want to do?
Cheers.

 

[pollys13]

I use spray adhesive bought from a copy shop /stationers.

Yes when I started to look into this, someone mentioned using a photo mounting adhesive. What brand do you use?

Its worth noting though that just because its granite, its not necessarily flat.

Wilko have granite worktop savers as well as Argos. Wilko I can probably get away with taking off the shelf opening box, if in box, use a straightedge, though might be wrapped in plastic not in a box.
I already have a sheet of Axminster float glass to check for flat. Would prefer to use the glass, saves a bit of a fath of trying to locate a suitable worktop saver, also buying it. Seems the Wilko version is bigger and thicker than Argos, theirs would be in the warehouse so I think would be difficult to check out.

 

[lurker]

Thickish Mdf is flatter than those granite plates.
Have you considered that the weave of the sander belt will cause unevenness ?

I use wet and dry and spray mount on mdf and just chuck it away and start again when the paper is worn out. But it lasts ages.

 

[pollys13]

Thickish Mdf is flatter than those granite plates.
Ah, you jogged my memory have read that have quite a lot of MDF what thickness do you use?
Have you considered that the weave of the sander belt will cause unevenness ?
No I havn't.

I use wet and dry and spray mount on mdf and just chuck it away and start again when the paper is worn out. But it lasts ages.

I think wet and dry isn't available in coarser grits, around say 80 and 120.

 

[lurker]

You might be right about wet and dry.
My guess is (would not consider doing it) lapping cast iron with 80 grit would be a sure way to bollux up a sole.
I usually use a bit of fine on a new (to me) plane sole just to see where and how bad the humps and bumps are.
Often they are of no consequence and I ignore them and just do a light lap to smooth things over a bit.
Chisels only need the end 20mm to be worked on and even that is more than has any practical purpose.

 

[pollys13]

You might be right about wet and dry.

I usually use a bit of fine on a new (to me) plane sole just to see where and how bad the humps and bumps are.
Often they are of no consequence and I ignore them and just do a light lap to smooth things over a bit.

OK thanks I think you might have saved me.... some grief, appreciated I bought an Axminster Rider No.5 Jack some while back. Didn't check it at the time ( sort of took them on their word regards quality ), only checked the sole and cheeks later on, when I got the float glass. Checking on that, the sole isn't flat, not horrendously out, this is why I'm on about flattening, what would you suggest as a fine grit? Should I use the water method to keep the fine down on the glass?

 

[lurker]

Make sure the plane is intact and other that the blade retracted, just as you would use it.
Rub the sole on some fine wet and dry on a flat surface (maybe your glass plate), not much just to create shine on the raised parts of the sole.
Photograph the result and we will tell you if it's significant or not.

I reckon I could take off more than 0.5 mm of raised soft cast iron with maybe 30 or 40 swipes on 180 wet and dry, on a small sole like a block plane. Less than a minute.

 

[ED65]

Lapping the sole and the back of iron, using wet stone grinder for sharpening and hand strop on leather to keep edge, or use grinders leather wheel.

May I ask why the need for a lapping station for plane soles if you don't have any vintage planes? Even at that not all planes need work on their soles, I have five old planes here currently (all Stanleys, of various vintages) and only one of them needed fettling of its sole to work as needed.

As for doing the backs of irons, again the vintage issue is relevant as if you're not doing old stuff there's not a huge need for it and a coarse diamond plate will serve you well for a one-time layout. Even at a finer grit a diamond plate may be found to be faster than abrasive cloth/paper because of the much higher hardness of diamonds. A 100-150 diamond plate can be had for a fiver or less and could easily last you ten years or more.

I think wet and dry isn't available in coarser grits, around say 80 and 120.

Wet 'n' dry is made in 80 and 120 grits. It's not how I'd buy my 80 for lapping (belt material is far superior IME) but you can definitely get it should you want it.