Spindle moulder cutter blocks

[Jordhandson]

Hi well here is my first question, hopefully someone on here can advise. I have been making do with my home made router table



and now want to upgrade to something a bit sturdier. I have and old spindle moulder I picked it up a couple years ago and has been kept under a sheet.

I think its a Robinsons but dont quote me, I am in the process of cleaning it up and getting it all running and up together. Ive check out out the bearing and there are great I have fitted the motor back on and got everything running free and started to clean the top.

I have started to make up some fences and safety guard this will get me going till I either find the correct ones which could be a challenge or till I fabricate up something more permanent.

It does have a couple of cutter blocks but

wanting to be a bit more safety conscious I am going to buy a new euro block with the limiters. My question is do I go for 40mm or 50mm there about a tenner difference in price so I am leaning toward the 50mm one as it will give me more scope.

Am I thinking correct. Cheers

 

[Jordhandson]

Well this question went down like a lead balloon.


Enlighten me is it a taboo subject

 

[Jacob]

Well this question went down like a lead balloon.


Enlighten me is it a taboo subject

Yes it is a bit!
The two blocks you've got would break HSE rules in the workplace, but what you do on your own in your workshop is nobody else business. I use blocks just like these two as well as more modern and safer ones. The lower one is safer as the cutters are held in by the serrations (if you have the rest of the mechanism not in the photo) but doesn't have limiters and could whip a finger off. So you'd need to learn as much as you can first and use all safety measures , basically guards and most importantly, two push sticks and great caution.
50mm new block might not retract all the way into the well and would limit smaller rebates, so you need to measure the depth.
It's a smallish machine so a whole 50 x 12.5 mm rebate may need two passes anyway
Machine looks good!

 

[Jordhandson]

Thanks Jacob points noted on the two blocks I have regarding the " 50mm new block might not retract all the way into the well and would limit smaller rebates, so you need to measure the depth. "
When you say "the well" what do you mean do you mean the cutter going down into the table, or going back into the extraton part. Sorry Im a bit thick on this

 

[Doug71]

Nice old machine you have there.

I have a euro block which takes both 40 mm and 50 mm cutters which are 4 mm thick.

You can get blocks which take 50 mm cutters that are 5.5mm thick, the thing is the cutters and limiters cost about twice as much for these.

You will probably end up with more than one block anyway so for me one which takes both 40 mm and 50 mm 4mm thick cutters is a good place to start, loads of cutters available and are cheap.

It's nice to have a separate dedicated rebate block as well.

Wealden tools is a good place to start if you haven't used them already.

https://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Spindle_Tooling_91.html
And here is something about old style blocks v euro bocks which is worth a read if you are new to spindle moulders,

http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6606

 

[Lazurus]

I have acquired a kitty 629 spindle moulder, currently in storage whilst the workshop is finished, however I am beginning to regret the purchase as I think it is going to be very expensive for tooling compared to a router table, and a very steep learning curve on using and setting up safely.

 

[Jordhandson]

Nice old machine you have there.

I have a euro block which takes both 40 mm and 50 mm cutters which are 4 mm thick.

You can get blocks which take 50 mm cutters that are 5.5mm thick, the thing is the cutters and limiters cost about twice as much for these.

You will probably end up with more than one block anyway so for me one which takes both 40 mm and 50 mm 4mm thick cutters is a good place to start, loads of cutters available and are cheap.

It's nice to have a separate dedicated rebate block as well.

Wealden tools is a good place to start if you haven't used them already.

https://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Spindle_Tooling_91.html
And here is something about old style blocks v euro bocks which is worth a read if you are new to spindle moulders,

http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6606

Cheers Doug I have got the wealden catalog on order and that was a good read at whaven regarding the old blocks. Thanks

I am very much aware the spindle moulder comands a lot of repect regarding safety, although pretty much all my kit does especially when one is working on there own most of the time. it does keep one on there toes.

Thanks

 

[Jordhandson]

I have acquired a kitty 629 spindle moulder, currently in storage whilst the workshop is finished, however I am beginning to regret the purchase as I think it is going to be very expensive for tooling compared to a router table, and a very steep learning curve on using and setting up safely.

For my limited time researching, I have found the that tooling costs for the spindle moulder, once I have a few blocks is more economical than the router bits.

 

[guineafowl21]

I have acquired a kitty 629 spindle moulder, currently in storage whilst the workshop is finished, however I am beginning to regret the purchase as I think it is going to be very expensive for tooling compared to a router table, and a very steep learning curve on using and setting up safely.

Once you’ve got the limiter block, knives are cheap and you can get custom made ones, or even make them yourself. The finish is better, and the machine is quieter and less dusty. I use mine for tenoning, scribe/profile doors, panel raising, T&G, template following, grooving, as well as the usual decorative moulding and rebating.

I was initially looking for a router table, but was unimpressed by the expense vs quality of rise/fall and fence. Most didn’t even come powered. Of course, you could always get both

 

[RobinBHM]

Well this question went down like a lead balloon.


Enlighten me is it a taboo subject

The 2 pin Euro universal blocks aren’t as err universal as you might think.

the cutters come in various thicknesses including 4mm, 5mm, 5.5mm and I think 6mm. and they don’t fit in all blocks.

also some blocks have the pins set in further in the block and the cutter profile of some blocks doesn’t clear the block so you can’t get a full profile cut before the block starts to rub.

Personally I strongly recommend you consider getting a TCT rebate block - very handy for doing all sizes of rebates, even small tenons etc etc.

 

[Jar944]

Corrugated back blocks are still considered modern tooling here in the US, though a somewhat different design. I would personally use the blocks you have (assuming you can get corrugated knives)

The 40mm blocks will take 40mm and 50mm knives. Those are the most inexpensive knives in my experience

 

[Jacob]

Thanks Jacob points noted on the two blocks I have regarding the " 50mm new block might not retract all the way into the well and would limit smaller rebates, so you need to measure the depth. "
When you say "the well" what do you mean do you mean the cutter going down into the table, or going back into the extraton part. Sorry Im a bit thick on this

The "well" - the spindle and cutter wind up, and wind down again into the "well". It's not a technical term it's just what I call it. e.g.with a 50mm rebate block it's handy to have a 50m deep well so you can adjust the rebate depth right down to zero.

 

[Jordhandson]

The "well" - the spindle and cutter wind up, and wind down again into the "well". It's not a technical term it's just what I call it. e.g.with a 50mm rebate block it's handy to have a 50m deep well so you can adjust the rebate depth right down to zero.

Thanks Jacob thats perfect, I shall mearsure the depth of travel into "the well" in the morning

 

[Jordhandson]

Corrugated back blocks are still considered modern tooling here in the US, though a somewhat different design. I would personally use the blocks you have (assuming you can get corrugated knives)
View attachment 120514

The 40mm blocks will take 40mm and 50mm knives. Those are the most inexpensive knives in my experience
View attachment 120519

nice set of cutters there

 

[baldkev]

What size motor does it have, and what is the spindle size?

As said above, you will likely end up with a couple of blocks, or more.... so maybe buy the 40mm to oick off with, the knives and limiters are cheap etc.... and look on the bay for sets ( try kity )

 

[Austin Branson]

Hello folks, I own a small Scheppach spindle, but I only really use it for rebates. I am very conscious of my limited knowledge and experience with this (potentially dangerous) machine. Two questions- how can I improve my knowledge? And secondly, can someone give me a clue for the correct torque to be applied to the cutter fixing bolts? Many thanks.
PS I live in Normandy

 

[Jacob]

Hello folks, I own a small Scheppach spindle, but I only really use it for rebates. I am very conscious of my limited knowledge and experience with this (potentially dangerous) machine. Two questions- how can I improve my knowledge? And secondly, can someone give me a clue for the correct torque to be applied to the cutter fixing bolts? Many thanks.
PS I live in Normandy

Spindle Moulder Handbook
by E. Stephenson
If you get an earlier edition there's a lot about the older cutters too.

Torque - just "reasonably solid" like any normal nut/bolt. If over tightened it can distort the block.
I've only ever had one come loose but that was because somebody else had left it un tightened.

 

[JBaz]

I have the same cutter block which I has an 11/4" bore, so I use reducer collars to fit it to my 30mm spindle.

I'm told it only needs one cutter as it's almost impossible to align 2 cutters without the location (and retention) pins. This makes it suitable for cutters that I grind myself (only if I have to). I've only ever used it with one cutter and it works well, but I was only removing minimal timber.

As well as guarding and a new fence you will need to consider how you are going to hold the stock timber against the fence, both vertically and horizontally. It needs to be robust as the cutters have a tendency to push the stock away from the cutter.

As to having a range of cutter blocks, apart from the one like yours I have a rebate block, a roundover block that can take a range of radius cutters and an old euro block that doesn't have the space for limiters. These seem to cover 95% of my needs.

 

[Jacob]

I have the same cutter block which I has an 11/4" bore, so I use reducer collars to fit it to my 30mm spindle.

I'm told it only needs one cutter as it's almost impossible to align 2 cutters without the location (and retention) pins. This makes it suitable for cutters that I grind myself (only if I have to). I've only ever used it with one cutter and it works well, but I was only removing minimal timber.

Usual to have two cutters identical, or at least same weight, but one set back so you get balance but only one actually cutting

As well as guarding and a new fence you will need to consider how you are going to hold the stock timber against the fence, both vertically and horizontally. It needs to be robust as the cutters have a tendency to push the stock away from the cutter.
.....

Shaw guards and two push sticks. Kick-back not as bad as with a TS as spindle cutters are relatively small and don't pick up and "throw" the workpiece - more likely just to knock it sideways a bit or take a chunk out, if things go wrong.
PS Two push sticks almost all the time - if your hands don't ever go near the cutters you won't ever get a cut. Also gives you better handling - longer reach and more control as you can use the push stick close up to the cutters if you have to. They are consumables and making copies from ply or mdf is a good idea.

 

[Tim Britton]

Hi well here is my first question, hopefully someone on here can advise. I have been making do with my home made router table

View attachment 120401 View attachment 120402

and now want to upgrade to something a bit sturdier. I have and old spindle moulder I picked it up a couple years ago and has been kept under a sheet.
View attachment 120405
I think its a Robinsons but dont quote me, I am in the process of cleaning it up and getting it all running and up together. Ive check out out the bearing and there are great I have fitted the motor back on and got everything running free and started to clean the top.

View attachment 120407
I have started to make up some fences and safety guard this will get me going till I either find the correct ones which could be a challenge or till I fabricate up something more permanent.

View attachment 120408
It does have a couple of cutter blocks but

View attachment 120409View attachment 120410
wanting to be a bit more safety conscious I am going to buy a new euro block with the limiters. My question is do I go for 40mm or 50mm there about a tenner difference in price so I am leaning toward the 50mm one as it will give me more scope.

Am I thinking correct. Cheers

Hi Jordhandson, saw your original post and the spindle moulder you have looks a great bit of kit. I've chucked my tuppence worth in here and hopefully won't upset too many people with my comments. The argument over a spindle or a router being best is a bit like asking if a mallet is better than a hammer and the answer to both is 'depends what you're doing' which I hope most will agree. I've no issue with those who say a spindle is a dangerous bit of kit as it can be but used properly, as all machine tools should, it is a great addition to a workshop. The Whitehill blocks were used for years with only problems caused my wear, badly adjusted or operator stupidity - before anyone jumps in and starts yelling over my choice of words I say find me someone who hasn't been a bit silly - in the workshop where I served my apprenticeship we had spindle tooling from the square block days and the Whitehill stuff, this was before the chip limiter idea gained acceptance and serrated back cutters were so new we'd not seen or heard of them. No matter what cutter blocks you use, the cutters and the cutter-faces in the block should be clean and clamping screws/wedges etc shoudl work as designed. As for using a spindle I'll pass on the advice given to me when I was introduced to using such machines in the 1970s... 'your hand goes as far as the table edge then a push stick takes over...' at the very least you should have some Shaw guards to hold the timber near the cutter and use them no matter how brief a task is to be done. Final bit of advice from an old f*rt... find a copy of the Spindle Moulder Handbook by Eric Stephenson... no I'm not related to him, don't know him and to my knowledge never met him... just a book packed with useful information.