Spiers Improved Mitre Plane - questions

[Aled Dafis]

I was at a family gathering yesterday, and after a good few hours at the pub, we retired to my wife's uncle's house for a few nibbles and a cup of tea - which soon turned into more wine

While we were there, my wife's uncle told me he had been given some old tools, and took me into the garage to show off his battered old chisels, and a few planes, much to my surprise he pulled out this little beauty from the bottom of a cardboard box :shock: :shock:

To cut a long story short, he said that I could have the plane if I bought him back a standard plane that he could use to adjust the odd door now and again.:roll: :roll:

As you can see from these pictures, theres a little surface rust all over the plane and iron, so what's the best way of dealing with it? How about lapping on wet & dry, or is that going to damage it forever - I have quite a large surface table at school that I could use.

The infill looks in good shape, so that can be left alone. How do I protect this when cleaning up the metalwork?

Can anyone tell me more about the plane, I gather from my Murlands tool value guide, that Spiers traded between around 1840 and 1936. I also found a picture of a similar plane on the web that pointed towards 1850-1860, is this accurate?

Not that I'm that concerned about the actual value as I fully intend to hang on to this plane, but my tool value guide points to £400 to £800 :shock: is this also in the right ball park?

Any info would be much appreciated, especially as regards to renovating.

Thanks in advance

Aled

 

[Harbo]

Cannot offer you any more advice other than what you have already found out about the type and values.

If the rust is only surface I would clean it off with wire wool or some fine wet & dry with a bit of paraffin. You could protect the wooden bits with some masking tape. The sole can be lapped on wet & dry on a surface plate.
Then give it all a wax with some paste wax or camellia oil for protection.

You can be a bit more hard on the iron and use a chemical rust remover containing phosphoric acid (jenolite) before polishing off and regrinding the bevel. I would not polish the brass - clean it carefully but leave the patina.

Rod

 

[mr]

Aled - nice looking plane. As to value there is one here

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2232297/

value estimated at £5 -600 and another here


http://www.tooljunkie.com/antiques.asp value estimated at $4000.00

I think if I haven't gone completely mad and am looking at something totally other than what you have there then I would be tempted to get it valued properly and return it to the wifes uncle if it really does turn out to have a frightening cash value.

Cheers Mike[/u]

 

[Joel Moskowitz]

It's worth a good chunk.
since you are in the UK I would chat with DAvid STanley before doing anything. You don't want to do any work that would damamge the original finish, widen the mouth, and unnecessarily remove patina in the process of getting rid of the rust.
Incidentally the reason these planes are rare and valuable is that not a lot bought them - they are not nearly as useful as a good smoother - or even a box mitre plane for shooting.

I need to change my original idea about the date. I assumed it was 20th century because of the lever cap screw but the mark is 19th century. and there is another screw sided mitre plane with the same knob. So that puts it into the last 1/4 of the 19th century I would think. In any case it's worth a good bit. I sold and earlier one a few years ago for about $2k

 

[wayne]

It looks to me like it has seen little if any serious use. Very nice find indeed! Won't find any treasures like that here...that's for sure.

Joel is right about consulting David Stanley. I saw a Norris jointer go for an absolutely obscene price in one of his auction catalogues. It was a late entry to the auction, and was in similar untidy, slightly rusty condition. Collectors do love seeing "fresh", untouched finds. -Wayne

 

[Harbo]

Do not wish to hijack the thread but can any of you experts date this more common and garden small coffin smoother please?:

Thanks Rod

 

[toolsntat]

Very nice Aled
My method would be
1 Blunt chisel to loose the dusty rust
2 Autosolve with a toothbrush on the metal then clean of with fine wire wool while still wet (Not the brass)
3 Give it all a good rub with an oily dirty rag and enjoy :wink: :wink:

It was a late entry to the auction, and was in similar untidy, slightly rusty condition. Collectors do love seeing "fresh", untouched finds. -Wayne

If it was the one I saw in the flesh, "slightly rusty" would be a real understatement :shock: :shock: and the buyer would have got the shock of their life I`m sure :roll: Was a real shame
Personally untouched is worth more than restored but then we all have our own preference's

 

[Scrit]

Do not wish to hijack the thread but can any of you experts date this more common and garden small coffin smoother please?:

Stuart Spiers is known to have made planes from about 1840 onwards, although earlier planes were screwed together rather than rivetted. Rivetting is believed to have come in some time in the 1850s (making the mitre plane a later one). Sometime around 1870 Spiers gave up his trade as a cabinetmaker and went over to making planes full time. The business continued in one form or another until just before WWII (1936 or 1937) and it is believed that both styples of plane were available right up to the end, so dating is a bit of a pickle. The plane you have is a No.6 steel smoothing plane.

Scrit

 

[George_N]

Hi Scrit, not heard from you on here for a while, welcome back!

 

[Smudger]

Yes, nice to hear that authoritative voice.

 

[Aled Dafis]

Thanks for your replies.

Following your advice I think that I'll start off by contacting David Stanley to see whether cleaning the plane would be detrimental, and also what approach I should take in cleaning / restoring it.

The values that you guys talk about has made me a little more cautious in my approach - I was ready to get the wet and dry out and give it a good going over :roll:

Keep the comments / advice coming please.

Cheers
Aled

P.S. Nice to have you back on board Scrit

 

[Harbo]

Thanks Scrit - nice to hear from you.

Has anybody written up the history of Spiers planes - must be a lot of interest out there for one?

Rod

 

[toolsntat]

Has anybody written up the history of Spiers planes - must be a lot of interest out there for one?

Rod

Here..........
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:le ... cd=4&gl=uk
Also........
http://www.mjdtools.com/books/127851.htm

 

[George_N]

To cut a long story short, he said that I could have the plane if I bought him back a standard plane that he could use to adjust the odd door now and again.

Aled

One of theseshould be within your budget now for trimming doors and cleaning off old paint etc. to keep uncle happy :wink: :wink:

 

[Benchwayze]

Has anybody written up the history of Spiers planes - must be a lot of interest out there for one?

Rod

Here..........
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:le ... cd=4&gl=uk
Also........
http://www.mjdtools.com/books/127851.htm

Garrett Hack mentions Spiers as being one of the finest plane-makers of his day. Apprently they were the 'Holteys' of their time. Certainly as good as, if not so 'fashionable' as Norris.

So any Spiers plane would be a 'keep' for me..

John

 

[Benchwayze]

I was at a family gathering yesterday, and after a good few hours at the pub, we retired to my wife's uncle's house for a few nibbles and a cup of tea - which soon turned into more wine



To cut a long story short, he said that I could have the plane if I bought him back a standard plane that he could use to adjust the odd door now and again.:roll: :roll:


Thanks in advance

Aled

No contest..
Good swap!

Looks like a fine wire-wool and paste-wax job on the body of the plane.
Mabe cover the infill with masking tape? I doubt that would damage the timber. I think if you work slow and clean, there shouldn't be a problem tho'. I daresay that plane has had a fair bit of oil of one sort or another on the wooden infill in its time.

John

 

[Scrit]

Garrett Hack mentions Spiers as being one of the finest plane-makers of his day. Apprently they were the 'Holteys' of their time. Certainly as good as, if not so 'fashionable' as Norris.

Perhaps it is truer to say that Norris started out as a later copyist of the already established Spiers planes and then improved on the design. Don't forget that other planemakers also made this style of infill plane, most notably Alex. mathieson of Glasgow, Edward Preston of Birmingham, William Marples of Sheffield and Slater of Clarkenwell. The major manufacturers (Spiers and Norris) are known to have made planes for others including Mathieson (both in all probability) and Musgrave of Lincoln (Norris) and a number of foundries produced the brass/naval bronze fittings for craftsmen to make their own planes

Scrit

 

[Benchwayze]

Well Scrit,

I give in to your superior knowledge on this one. I have heard of those gentlemen of course. My biggest problem with the Spiers smoother, is that I can't even get just three fingers through the tote without feeling 'cramped'. So I don't use mine very often. But it takes a lovely shaving I have to say! The front 'button' is missing a bit of timber, but of course that doesn't affect the operation of the plane. So it stays in my 'arsenal'..


Regards
John.

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Aled,

You might be interested in a new product from the makers of Toolguard VCI pots and MetalGuard Ultra. It is called 'Restore' and it's a very gentle water based, fully biodegradable, non toxic yet highly effective alternative to phosphoric acid baths for removing rust.

Just mix with water (19:1 ratio, so a 500ml bottle makes 10 litres), pop the tools in, give them a few hours to soak, once the rust has melted you just rinse the surface with clean water and wipe off any residue.

The product won't affect good metal, non ferrous metal, plastics, rubber etc in the slightest, although because it is largely water, you would need to be careful not to submerge your wooden infill. It also passivates the surfaces that the rust has been removed from so there is no risk of flash rusting as you get with phosphoric. A quick wipe over with camellia oil or MetalGuard Ultra afterwards will give longer lasting protection.

Because it's fully biodegradable and non toxic, once you have re-used it a few times, you can just pour it down the drain. It should be available within the next week or so from WH at £24.95 for a 500ml bottle.

 

[Smudger]

That was really interesting until the last line!