Sorby Pro-Edge

[Trafalgar]

I'm from the Mike Dunbar school on maintaining turning tools -- hollow grind and hone (except for skews which I do on stones only). The edges are better and last a touch longer, about the amount of time it takes to hone them. So on a net basis you're turning with better edges at any given point in time.

I turn with *cheap but I love 'em* carbon steel turning tools for fair disclosure. Can't be fast and aggressive at the grinder as with HSS.

 

[CHJ]

...... hollow grind and hone (except for skews which I do on stones only). The edges are better and last a touch longer, about the amount of time it takes to hone them. ....... carbon steel turning tools ........

Fine if you work with woods that are easy on tooling and benefit from ultra sharp edges, impractical if you use abrasive woods or anything with glue ups using the like of Cascamite where even HSS struggles to maintain an edge.

 

[Trafalgar]

In the grand scheme of turning, HSS is a relatively recent invention. I don't turn nasty tropicals though, or glue up with two-part glues. I'm far from an expert turner or a piece-rate production turner. I hate when the fun is over. I'm in no big hurry. I find it extremely relaxing.

 

[D_W]

How much furniture is made from those types of woods? There's a large difference in what Charles is talking about and the rubbing off of wood that is described as turning these days.

I have also never had issue with carbon steel turning tools (nor the HSS tools), but I don't turn segmented pieces or anything else filled with glue, and the rare verawood mallet or other such nastiness, I just use a cheap HSS gouge to turn. I don't think turning has been improved by HSS tools, but they do allow people to grind with abandon and take high speed light cuts. On furniture, I'd imagine that an experienced turner would be better off doing more work with a skew and expecting more of the work to be finished off of the cut.

Separating my comments from those who only turn and go weird (turning corian, plastics, etc) as opposed to people making furniture and turning spindles, legs, etc.

 

[Jacob]

I've got a Pro edge - it's not magic - just an ordinary linisher adapted for sharpening. Fairly pricey but well put together.
What peed me of was that not long before I bought my Pro edge I sold an ancient Picador linisher same as below. Would do the job just as well - same length belts fit although narrower but no prob.
In fact if I spot another Picador I'll buy it and sell the Pro edge whilst they are still everybody's favourite!

 

[Trafalgar]

How much furniture is made from those types of woods? There's a large difference in what Charles is talking about and the rubbing off of wood that is described as turning these days.

I have also never had issue with carbon steel turning tools (nor the HSS tools), but I don't turn segmented pieces or anything else filled with glue, and the rare verawood mallet or other such nastiness, I just use a cheap HSS gouge to turn. I don't think turning has been improved by HSS tools, but they do allow people to grind with abandon and take high speed light cuts. On furniture, I'd imagine that an experienced turner would be better off doing more work with a skew and expecting more of the work to be finished off of the cut.

Separating my comments from those who only turn and go weird (turning corian, plastics, etc) as opposed to people making furniture and turning spindles, legs, etc.

My 1970s Rockwell/Delta has a nasty shimmy at high speed so I turn at lower speeds anyway -- probably not too much faster than speeds achievable with a quality treadle lathe though I can't say for sure since I've never used one. All of my turning is purely between centers, except for knobs and pulls done in a Jacob's chuck.

 

[Noho12C]

thanks all for your answers. Few more points :

- As I said previously, I have a Tormek, which I find very slow. Will the Sorby ProEdge be faster ? (for plane irons particularly)
- Is the machine noisy and doing a lot of sparks ? It would be used in an apartment. Not many neighbours around, but I would like something fairly discreet :wink:

Thanks !

 

[custard]

thanks all for your answers. Few more points :

- As I said previously, I have a Tormek, which I find very slow. Will the Sorby ProEdge be faster ? (for plane irons particularly)
- Is the machine noisy and doing a lot of sparks ? It would be used in an apartment. Not many neighbours around, but I would like something fairly discreet :wink:

Thanks !

It's plenty fast enough, compared to a Tormek it's supersonic! Noise levels are moderate, there are some sparks but not many. It does throw out quite a bit of black dust that you don't get with a Tormek, a Tormek deposits all the gunk neatly into the water trough, a Pro Edge dumps it all over your feet.

 

[CHJ]

...... It does throw out quite a bit of black dust that you don't get with a Tormek, a Tormek deposits all the gunk neatly into the water trough, a Pro Edge dumps it all over your feet.

I've got several old HDD magnets scattered around the PE station and they do a good job of growing attractive Xmas Trees of debris.

 

[transatlantic]

Does look like a very nice tool, but £330 for the woodturners kit! ..christ on a bike with mary on the handle bars!

Having said that .. a good name branded belt sander is usually around £200, so I guess it's not that bad

 

[patrickjchase]

- As I said previously, I have a Tormek, which I find very slow. Will the Sorby ProEdge be faster ? (for plane irons particularly)

The way to estimate this is to look at the surface speed of the abrasive. The Tormek turns a 10" wheel at 90 rpm, so the abrasive moves at 235 sfpm (surface feet per minute). The Pro-Edge runs at 1700 fpm, so ~7X as fast. The Tormek's solid wheel continuously exposes new abrasive whereas the Sorby's belts are a one-shot affair, so the practical difference between the two probably isn't quite as large as fpm alone would suggest, but it's in the right ballpark.

A couple other examples for comparison:

A 3600 rpm 8" grinder runs at 7500 sfpm, and a half-speed grinder at half of that, obviously.

The WorkSharp WS3000 and Veritas 8" disc systems run at ~1300 sfpm at the edge, and less as you move towards the center of the disc.

IMO the Sorby is pretty well optimized for tool work. It's fast enough to do serous removal in reasonable time, but without requiring a high level of concern about overheating. I mostly use wheel grinders with CBN or Alumina wheels, but I'd give the Sorby a hard look if I were in the market for a belt grinder. You can even convince yourself it's inexpensive if you look at, say, a Burr-King first.

 

[Jacob]

thanks all for your answers. Few more points :

- As I said previously, I have a Tormek, which I find very slow. Will the Sorby ProEdge be faster ? (for plane irons particularly)
- Is the machine noisy and doing a lot of sparks ? It would be used in an apartment. Not many neighbours around, but I would like something fairly discreet :wink:

Thanks !

Noise level very low. Nowhere near as loud as many domestic appliances. You could do a simple sound test - get someone to grind and listen from outside the room with the door closed. You'd hardly notice.
Yes is sparky but all grinders are. The open structure means the dust and sparks spread out but this is much safer than a belt sander with a closed in casing, which can be a fire hazard. Either way you need to keep the area well swept so that there is no sawdust around to work as kindling.
A few magnets help gather the filings, as CHJ said

 

[patrickjchase]

IMO the Sorby is pretty well optimized for tool work. It's fast enough to do serous removal in reasonable time, but without requiring a high level of concern about overheating. I mostly use wheel grinders with CBN or Alumina wheels, but I'd give the Sorby a hard look if I were in the market for a belt grinder. You can even convince yourself it's inexpensive if you look at, say, a Burr-King first.

A couple other musings about the Sorby grinder:

The main thing that gives me pause about it is the non-standard (2" x ~30.5") belt size, which has the effect of locking you into Sorby's belt selection. Most industrial suppliers only seem to carry 2" wide belts at 48" length and above (with 2x48 and 2x72 being very common sizes).

If I were purshasing a belt grinder here in the US I would consider the Sorby as I said above, but I'd also look at something like the Canadian Viel 1x42 system (http://www.vieltools.com/detail.php?p=NTQy&l=ZW4=). It's a standard belt size that can be purchased just about everywhere, and they offer a good selection of jigs etc. I'm sure there are UK-made equivalents. The motors that they sell for it are a bit on the fast side compared to the Sorby, but it uses a standard mounting you can easily fit low- (or variable-) speed motors.

The 2" wide belt on the Sorby does add some convenience for things like plane irons. If I wanted that capability then the only realistic alternative would be one of the many 2x48 or 2x72 grinders on the market, but those would probably come out more expensive than the Sorby when all is said and done. The Pro-Edge actually turns out to not be *that* expensive when you start pricing out similarly capable offerings.

 

[CHJ]

....
The main thing that gives me pause about it is the non-standard (2" x ~30.5") belt size, which has the effect of locking you into Sorby's belt selection. ....

Not a problem in UK, all my belts are from an independant supplier.

 

[sneggysteve]

....
The main thing that gives me pause about it is the non-standard (2" x ~30.5") belt size, which has the effect of locking you into Sorby's belt selection. ....

Not a problem in UK, all my belts are from an independant supplier.

Hi Chas

Who is your supplier please?

Steve

 

[CHJ]

Hi Chas

Who is your supplier please?

Steve

I ordered them from BND Abrasives Steve, main snag is they only supply in minimum quanties which can prove rather expensive.
I bit the bullet with each grade and it looks as though I'll never have to make another purchase.

 

[ED65]

I bit the bullet with each grade and it looks as though I'll never have to make another purchase.

Set for life, I'm a big fan of that!

 

[custard]

The main thing that gives me pause about it is the non-standard (2" x ~30.5") belt size, which has the effect of locking you into Sorby's belt selection.

The main belt I use is a 60 grit ceramic. I'm doing this full time so it gets used pretty much every day for multiple grindings. I guess I change the belt about every three or four months, not because it's particularly crying out for it but that's how often I change the scary sharp paper on a granite block that I use for final honing, so I do all the sharpening station maintenance in one go.

For hobbyist use the same belt might last a year or more. Really the cost of consumables is a non issue, and if you hunt around there are a few alternative sources for belts.

 

[CHJ]

Since March 2016 I have changed out just one 120 grit. belt as being 'well used' and that is my go to belt for HSS lathe tool sharpening.

So it looks as if nobody else in the village gets a machine and needs a belt there will be plenty of spares to go with the machine when I depart.

 

[Noho12C]

Thanks all for your information ! So, I just have to sell my Tormek and I think I will get one ProEdge
(it took me one hour this week end to regring (and remove the hollow) a pmv11 iron... boring ! #-o )