Some advice on sharpening please

[Timmo]

Hi,
Thanks for reading...
I am quite a novice woodworker but am pretty well kitted out..but...In terms of sharpening chisels and plane blades I feel a bit in the dark...
I have one of those axminster diamond wet stone blocks that has 4 different grits and I have one of those naff little stanley honing guides with the little roller..
Don't get me wrong, I can sharpen the blades and chisels OK with what I have and they are fine for the softwood that I normally use but I would like to learn and get some decent kit / knowledge..
I don't want to splash out on an electic grinder or anything like that as I am happy doing it by hand but I would just really appreciate some advice on the best stones / honing guides / information really.
I am planning on placing an order with axminster in the next few days and was seriously considering trying one of the veritas mark 2 honing guides but I think that the 4 sided wet stone I have is pretty damn rubbish...I don't have an endles budget but I am aware that if I get some decent kit it will last me for a long time.
If anyone can offer some advice it would be very much appreciated.
Thanks for your help
Timmo

 

[Grinding One]

In the Old days My dad wood sharpin his tools on stones but finish them on Leather to take off that little burr. He had a small piece of wood ,hand made ,2" by 8" he sawed a handle shape on one end .Used leather glue got from a shoe repair shop,and glued on a piece of leather cut from a hide(this whole thing took maybe 10 minutes of work)he glued the two pieces together,let them harden up and then applied jewelers rouge to the leather and stropped away....you get a very nice edge this way and don`t resort to power tools .
Sometimes hand made is better
Here in the U.S we use Arkansas Stones ,very nice and long lasting stones

 

[wizer]

Depends what route you want to go down. I must admit I wish I'd gone for good quality diamond stones from the start. Waterstones are a bit messy for my liking.

 

[newt]

There is nothing wrong with the Eclipse/clone honing guide, its the only one I use.

 

[OPJ]

In comparison with the cheap Veritas guide, the cheap Stanley you mentioned is to be regarded as obsolete - I can say that from experience! :wink:

I haven't had a chance to play with an Eclipse-type, although they also have a strong following, but you really cannot go wrong with Veritas. It makes setting up so easy and gives dead-accurate results every time. Where the Stanley guide moves the chisel as you secure it, this cannot happen with the Veritas thanks to the registration guide.

As for stones and systems, I think it's best that someone finds their own way. You might want to start off with oilstones (Norton are a good make) which are considerably cheaper than the other methods (water and diamond) initially.

 

[Timmo]

Thanks everyone for the replies..I'll definitely go for the veritas honing guide then and have a look at some different stones...Could someone recommend what grits to get...I would rather buy 2 really decent ones as opposed to 4 cheaper ones but I can only be guided by you guys with the knowledge / experience..
Thanks again everybody..

 

[OPJ]

You may benefit from purchasing a combination oilstone, which comprises of a medium grit on one side and fine for the other. If you need to do some serious re-grinding then you should probably try and get hold of a coarse stone as well, but the medium should be fine, provided your tools don't need too much work.

As your work progresses and you move on to cutting dovetails in hardwoods you'll want to invest in some kind of Extra or Ultra Fine stone. They aren't cheap but at the same time, they make all the difference. :wink:

The most important thing with any stone is to keep it lubricated and work across the surfaces evenly. With chisels, this often means sharpening in a 'figure of eight' pattern. Plane blades should be wide enough to accommodate most of the stone's width but you may want to spin the stone 180º every X-number of strokes.

 

[marcus]

If you want to get a seriously sharp blade without too much hassle, and reasonably cheaply, you can't beat a DMT D8E - 8inch Sharpening Stone - Extra Fine . http://www.tool-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Continuous_Stones.html

They're supposedly for sharpening knives, but I use mine for sharpening everything and it works great. It's a good size too. It's very fine grit (1200 I think), but even so I usually go straight to it without an intermediate stone, and the iron will be sharp enough to cut hairs in less than a minute... I've used it most days for four years, and it still works like it did the day I got it.

I agree that getting a double sided oilstone would be a good way to go - medium and fine. The fine side will get a good edge. The diamond stone will then take you to razor sharp...

Marcus

 

[Timmo]

Thanksa lot guys...I don't hve any serious regrinding to do so I guess its a toss up between a combination oil stone like this : http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... e=1&jump=0
Or one of the Diamond stones that Marcus has recommended..?
I am probably being a bit slow but when you say in a figure of eight I cant visualise what you mean...I appreciate that an oilstone will wear down if I don't use the service evenly...Do you mean going at diagonals across the stone as opposed to following a figure of eight path so to speak...sorry for being slow..

 

[Timmo]

Forgot to ask..with that Diamond stone...What lubricant would one use if any? Water , Oil?
Thanks
Timmo

 

[marcus]

You need to use water with the diamond stone.... but you would still need the combination stone, as sometimes the diamond will be too fine...

M

 

[OPJ]

Marcus is right. The extra fine diamond stone is only for final polishing really; adding a super sharp edges for your tools, which is really what you need when working with hardwoods.

Soap and water is supposed to be a good mix for diamond stones as it helps to prevent the stone from clogging and also rusting, I think, in the colder weather.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Forgot to ask..with that Diamond stone...What lubricant would one use if any? Water , Oil?

It's perfectly OK to use oil with a diamond stone - I use 3-in-1 or WD40 on mine. Or you can use water if you prefer.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[SeanG]

Timmo,

Sharpening is an evocative subject, there are lots of different methods and all of them are right (if they work for you!!!!)

For example, the Eclipse is hated by many and used religiously by just as many and plenty of people will argue for no jig at all.

I'd avoid spending any extra cash until you've decided what you don't like about the system you currently use.

To my mind sharpening is more about methodology; it's all about moving a blade over an abrasive at an angle. Once you adopt a repeatable system, you can analyse why the edge is not as shape as you want it to be, and the answer will probably be different depending on what type of blade you are using (e.g. a 1/16 paring chisel vs. a No.7 plane blade).

And my point (oh please let there be one!), get help! It's possible to learn sharpening by reading about it and trying for yourself - but it's a painful learning cliff. Find someone local (the boys and girls here are very friendly and helpful and seem to enjoy letting another forum member in their workshop ) and get some direct instruction.

Whereabouts in the country (world?) are you? There is bound to be someone close by.

Getting a sharp tool is one of the most important beginner skills, you will struggle to progress the rest of your skills until you get this one sorted.

Sean

 

[woodbloke]

Agree with all that Sean has said. It's a simple process with lots :shock: of different methods to achieve the same end. What's needed is to find a simple repeatable method that works for you. I use DMT diamond stones, Eclipse guide and the Spyderco 10000g ceramic for the finishing bevel - Rob

 

[marcus]

It's perfectly OK to use oil with a diamond stone - I use 3-in-1 or WD40 on mine. Or you can use water if you prefer.

All I know is that in the instructions for mine it said "do not use oil"! Don't know why , but I guess they had a reason....

Marcus

 

[gidon]

I agree with what's been said - it's very difficult to recommend sharpening kit - everyone has their chosen method and often their chosen method tends to change!
If you're happy with diamond stones I would recommend getting some decent ones that should last you. I have some 2 sided DMT Duosharp stones which are a good size and very flat. Fine is probably the most useful general purpose grade, and if you don't want to spend much you could finish off on a piece of MDF and some Veritas green honing compound or Autosol. An extra coarse (DMT also do an extra extra coarse) will also be handy if you don't have another (quicker) method for grinding. Adding an extra fine diamond stone may be worthwhile but I'd try a fine and some MDF + honing compound first and see how you get on.
I have a couple of videos in the site's video section which may help you and show the stones I use.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Paul Chapman]

It's perfectly OK to use oil with a diamond stone - I use 3-in-1 or WD40 on mine. Or you can use water if you prefer.

All I know is that in the instructions for mine it said "do not use oil"! Don't know why , but I guess they had a reason....

Marcus

This is taken from the FAQs on the DMT website

While we recommend you use DMT® products dry or with water only, it is acceptable to use a variety of lubricants when sharpening with DMT® products. Mineral oil, mineral spirits, kerosene, WD40 can all be used without harming your DMT® sharpener. We do not recommend storing your DMT sharpener in kerosene. DMT® recommends that you always wipe your Diamond and Unbreakable Ceramic Sharpeners clean and store dry after use.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[marcus]

Well they've updated their instructions since I bought mine, or my memory is playing tricks! :?

 

[Timmo]

Well thanks again guys for all the replies...I did get the impression that it is very much a matter of personal taste and choice as to what you use..Someone asked about what I currently use which I think I put in my first post but the problems I find with my current setup - Axminster 4 sided diamond wetstone block and a stanley honing guide is that because the wheel on the stanley is only narrow, it is hard to keep the smaller chisels level...I also find that when I am pushing them along on the axminster block that because it is only plastic it bows in the middles and stuff so that isn't going to be helping me either...
I can get my chisels and plane blades quite good but when you guys talk about cutting the hairs on your arm with them well I have no chance..
I do try to look after my blades and I wouldn't say that any of them get that dented up so hopefully I won't need to do any heavy grinding..
The DMT stuff looks good but quite expensive although I will look to see if the do a double sided fine / extra fine as that might be the most useful to me..
I'll have a look for those videos anyway..I am not in any major rush as I can make do with what I have at the moment but thanks for all the advice on this difficult subject...
Cheers
Timmo