JamiePattison
Established Member
As per the title, are solar panels still worth it? If yes any recommendations where to get them from/fit then by?
Solar panels still worth it?
- Thread starter JamiePattison
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artie
Sawdust manufacturer.
I think they are still worth it if you can use what you generate,
Selling to the grid is less attractive than it was. At least for me. down from around 17p a unit to around 10p
Buying a battery is not that attractive either because of the long payback time.
Selling to the grid is less attractive than it was. At least for me. down from around 17p a unit to around 10p
Buying a battery is not that attractive either because of the long payback time.
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
If you have an EV, and a smart "charger", a hot water tank with an immersion heater or white goods with timed starts, then I think they're worthwhile.
Having said which, I have no idea how much a typical install is these days. The panels themselves seem to be dropping in price rapidly, however.
We are lucky in that we bought a house that already had panels, and also inherited the ridiculously high feed-in tariff.
Having said which, I have no idea how much a typical install is these days. The panels themselves seem to be dropping in price rapidly, however.
We are lucky in that we bought a house that already had panels, and also inherited the ridiculously high feed-in tariff.
See the thread about fogstar / DIY batteries here. Storage is much cheaper if you go that route.
And Octopus pay 15p/kWh export.
You have to do your own numbers and research to find a reputable installer.
And Octopus pay 15p/kWh export.
You have to do your own numbers and research to find a reputable installer.
Hard to define 'worth it'
Will it entirely pay for itself quickly will depend on many variables including the cost of electricity which many never saw as being as high as it is now.
I can safely say there is something very rewarding about sometimes being able to run your home on completely self generated electricity. We also can run the car (EV) for next to nothing over the summer months thanks to excess electricity. Also how should we value the country building less power stations and having cleaner air thanks to domestic PV?
Will it entirely pay for itself quickly will depend on many variables including the cost of electricity which many never saw as being as high as it is now.
I can safely say there is something very rewarding about sometimes being able to run your home on completely self generated electricity. We also can run the car (EV) for next to nothing over the summer months thanks to excess electricity. Also how should we value the country building less power stations and having cleaner air thanks to domestic PV?
Eshmiel
Established Member
Exactly so.
The devil is in the details. To make the most of solar often requires other associated devices. Cost-benefit tables have to be drawn up.
But there are advantages other than reducing on going e-bills - the "being greener" you mention but also one that isn't often considered - personal resilience against a deteriorating world that may see the grid go absent for more and longer periods, due to storm damage but also due to the volatility in the privatised supply arrangements, in which various operators become incompetent, then insolvent, then absent. Alternative arrangements will not necessarily continue to be provided so having solar, battery and a UPS might just be rather useful.
niall Y
Established Member
I suppose, for an overall picture one should also take into account the "carbon footprint" from their manufacture. This supposedly takes 3 to 4 years of use to balance out.
I also wonder what happens when they reach the end of their useful life - whether all the elements can be usefully recycled.
I also wonder what happens when they reach the end of their useful life - whether all the elements can be usefully recycled.
Deadeye
Established Member
Broadly in line with other views. We've got 4kWP installed facing east. No battery but a little box that measures when we're about to tip into exporting and diverts the energy to the immersion coil in a 400l thermal store (which also has inputs from a gas boiler and woodburner back boiler).
We paid £6k about 12 years ago and got the feed in tariff that isn't available now. It pays roughly double the current feed in rates.
It's been great! We're long past payback, even ignoring the benefit of the diverter. Efficiency seems to be similar to when installed, although you do need to try to clean the panels occasionally (we had some gutter work done and used the scaffold).
The only downside is that pigeons nest underneath - doesn't affect the panels but they're noisy!
Hiya
I run my workshop off solar energy. I bought my panels off amazom along w8th the batts and inverter
I charge my cordless tools run the lighting, and most of my corded tools
Even my wood lathe and dust extraction unit
So yes for me at least it’s worth it as I am off grid, and it’s back up power for my medi equipment
I run my workshop off solar energy. I bought my panels off amazom along w8th the batts and inverter
I charge my cordless tools run the lighting, and most of my corded tools
Even my wood lathe and dust extraction unit
So yes for me at least it’s worth it as I am off grid, and it’s back up power for my medi equipment
Lard
Established Member
We had our 4.2kw system fitted about 4yrs ago by a local company (when the prices came down at the end of the FIT scheme) for about £4k (panels no battery).....as far as I know they should be even cheaper now and certainly not more expensive
4.2kw = 14 panels x 300 watts
Payback time should be around 9-10yrs (for us anyway)
4.2kw = 14 panels x 300 watts
Payback time should be around 9-10yrs (for us anyway)
Personally, I'd say no. I paid £10k for 10 panels, 4kw array with a 6.5kw battery. I get the 15p rate feed in with octopus at the moment. Having run it since October 2022, I make maybe £220 from the feed in and save around £580 per year. So the pay back really isn't worth it. 12.5 years, the money would have been better suited in an investment. It was a poor financial decision and one I would definitely not do again.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I'm told that solar is good value especially if you have a heat pump as you will then be using your own free electricity and getting free heating, for some of the time. Just getting quotes and checking it out.
I did the "back of a cigarette packet" calculation a while back, and realised it was going to take a long time to get anything back in real terms. Plus the faff of having the things on the roof if you have roof problems.
I came to the conclusion "No thanks"
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Whether solar panels are worth it depends on the criteria used to judge "worth" - environmental or financial.
If environmental then I suspect they make sense. There are a couple of key observations:
The cost of a typical 4kw PV installation is ~£6000 and produces ~3500kwh pa. Over (say) 10 years the cost per kwh produced will be £6000/35000kwh = 17p kwh.
This figure could be refined for different installation costs, appraisal period, maintenance and repair costs, and depends on alignment and location.
Compared with current costs per kwh of 25p, if all power generated was used, it would be worthwhile. For most domestic situations self consumption is 30-50%. The surplus can be sold back to the grid at rates from a few pence upwards.
Sale back to the grid
Surplus energy exported back to the grid as generated will tend to attract only low rates - generally a PV installation only generates a surplus when the sun is shining and demand low.
To get a better rate requires storage to allow energy to be fed back at times of high demand/high price, or used domestically at night to offset grid supply at 25p kwh.
A similar crude cost per kwh of storage can be estimated - with caveats. Assume a 10kwh battery at a cost of £6000, fully charged and discharged each day, and a life of 10 years.
Over a year it will "time shift" 3650kwh. Over a 10 year life the cost per kwh stored and released is £6000/36500 - the cost per kwh is 16p.
Electric vehicles
An EV is a means to store energy generated. Whether part of the cost of an EV should be regarded as storage is debateable - I will assume it has zero cost - just a happy coincidence of EV ownership.
It does allow self consumption from PV to increase significantly - although what financial benefit is attached to it is open to debate as most domestic EV charging will be overnight at off peak rates.
Vehicle to grid capability could enable more intelligent use of on car storage to time shift consumption - but widespread roll out is limited by the sale of EVs with the capability.
Conclusion
Those with the electrical knowhow may be entirely capable of engineering a lower cost technically competent installation than prices paid by most.
A 10 year time horizon may be short - some kit may last materially longer. It does illustrate that investment requires personal confidence in the future for a decade or more as there seems little/no price premium (generally) for properties with solar.
Earlier FIT schemes reflected both the higher costs of installation and the lower benefits due to lower electricity prices - expected payback was typically in the range 10-15 years. As energy prices have broadly doubled over the last 15 years the payback period has effectively halved.
If environmental then I suspect they make sense. There are a couple of key observations:
- they should be mandated for installation on all new construction where the additional costs would be far less than retrofitting once buildings are complete
- although not strictly environmental, economically it makes sense to invest in megawatt installations rather than separate domestic with typically separate 3-6kw
The cost of a typical 4kw PV installation is ~£6000 and produces ~3500kwh pa. Over (say) 10 years the cost per kwh produced will be £6000/35000kwh = 17p kwh.
This figure could be refined for different installation costs, appraisal period, maintenance and repair costs, and depends on alignment and location.
Compared with current costs per kwh of 25p, if all power generated was used, it would be worthwhile. For most domestic situations self consumption is 30-50%. The surplus can be sold back to the grid at rates from a few pence upwards.
Sale back to the grid
Surplus energy exported back to the grid as generated will tend to attract only low rates - generally a PV installation only generates a surplus when the sun is shining and demand low.
To get a better rate requires storage to allow energy to be fed back at times of high demand/high price, or used domestically at night to offset grid supply at 25p kwh.
A similar crude cost per kwh of storage can be estimated - with caveats. Assume a 10kwh battery at a cost of £6000, fully charged and discharged each day, and a life of 10 years.
Over a year it will "time shift" 3650kwh. Over a 10 year life the cost per kwh stored and released is £6000/36500 - the cost per kwh is 16p.
Electric vehicles
An EV is a means to store energy generated. Whether part of the cost of an EV should be regarded as storage is debateable - I will assume it has zero cost - just a happy coincidence of EV ownership.
It does allow self consumption from PV to increase significantly - although what financial benefit is attached to it is open to debate as most domestic EV charging will be overnight at off peak rates.
Vehicle to grid capability could enable more intelligent use of on car storage to time shift consumption - but widespread roll out is limited by the sale of EVs with the capability.
Conclusion
Those with the electrical knowhow may be entirely capable of engineering a lower cost technically competent installation than prices paid by most.
A 10 year time horizon may be short - some kit may last materially longer. It does illustrate that investment requires personal confidence in the future for a decade or more as there seems little/no price premium (generally) for properties with solar.
Earlier FIT schemes reflected both the higher costs of installation and the lower benefits due to lower electricity prices - expected payback was typically in the range 10-15 years. As energy prices have broadly doubled over the last 15 years the payback period has effectively halved.
When doing the calculations you need to be hard so that you get realistic payback times and ensure the investment will give returns and not just break even. Also don't just think of solar panels for electrical generation, you might find having some that heat water might be beneficial but not done the calcs.
I now wish I had not spent £9.5K on my system
Last 3 months payback have been , £6 / £6.40 / and £7 credited
We have so much cloud now due to temp change in the oceans that causes evaporation = Clouds and rain .
For me a complete £9.5K down the drain.
Last 3 months payback have been , £6 / £6.40 / and £7 credited
We have so much cloud now due to temp change in the oceans that causes evaporation = Clouds and rain .
For me a complete £9.5K down the drain.
Peanutcoxy
Established Member
Obviously they are very good for some but not for others. We are in the former despite our roof being east/west and in the worst possible direction. We have 16 panels, an inverter and 9kW battery and cost us just shy of £14k about 2 years ago. We also were buying an EV (due to change cars anyway) and had a home charger fitted at the same time at a cost of £1200 with electric upgrade. Our combined energy DD was about to go up to £265pm!! So after 2 years of learning, we have saved about £140pm on diesel and our DD is now £70pm. On top of that, last year we got back about £600 from SEG payments. Return of investment is very difficult to work out as we need to include the EV but very roughly we reckon it’ll be about 5.5 - 6 years at the current prices. From our experience, a large battery is essential. In the summer, no issues; your battery will pretty much be 100% charged and you’ll be exporting to the grid and use very little gas for heating. Winter is very different, heating is on a lot more, you create very little solar and you will constantly be using all the battery (keep 10% in reserve). Charge it up to 100% overnight using cheap electricity and try and also use your white goods overnight too.
Sorry for being long-winded but that’s our experience. Getting on the Octopus EV rate was essential and you must have an EV charger and smart meter for that (note standing charges are higher for this rate). Is it worth it? For us 100% yes
okeydokey
Established Member
Almost all comments say payback is 10 or so plus years. If you intend to move house in that time or if you are old and might not live that long or if the selling back price falls really low imo it's just not worth it.
As regards green credentials imo whatever we do in the UK to reduce emissions the entire UK savings I have heard are negated in a couple of hours by the amount of emissions from China and possibly USA especially as the new government appears not interested in the subject.
Well that's my current thinking
As regards green credentials imo whatever we do in the UK to reduce emissions the entire UK savings I have heard are negated in a couple of hours by the amount of emissions from China and possibly USA especially as the new government appears not interested in the subject.
Well that's my current thinking
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Kriggi
Established Member
There's a good, recent video from Harry Metcalf about solar, wind and thermal that he uses on his farm. He's in a really unique position but his feedback on solar was quite eyeopening. I guess if it works for your situation then it's worth the investment, if not then its a waste of money.
