Socket handle chisel question

[Evergreen]

Hi all

I've never owned a chisel with a socket handle before and tend to think of them as an American style tool. But yesterday, I saw a Peck, Stow and Wilcox chisel (as mentioned in Classic Hand Tools) going cheap in my favourite old tools shop and so I bought it out of curiosity. OK, OK, I need very little excuse to buy chisels! The 3/8 inch blade is perfect but the handle was chewed up. Never mind, I had a large old boxwood handle just begging to be cut down and reused. I spent a happy hour or two carefully shaping the end of the handle to fit in the socket. After many, many trial fittings, I'm convinced that the handle is now a pretty good fit in the socket - trouble is, it won't stay on! In fact, the blade just dropped off when I picked it up by the handle. Luckily, it landed on the bench rather than skewering my foot!

So, do socket handles come adrift more easily than tangs? Should I knock the the handle into the socket harder? Is box an unsuitable wood for this kind of handle? Should I use some epoxy resin in the socket (come to think of it, I think the old handle showed traces of adhesive)? Is there some other trick I'm missing here?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Regards.

 

[Mirboo]

I have a few different socket handle chisels and I've found that once you use them with a mallet for the first time the handles stay in the sockets pretty well. You can however remove the handles by giving the chisel a sideways whack on the bench to loosen the handle again.

I will preface the discussion of chisel handles that follows by saying that I wouldn't say I'm an expert on this and this is just my theory as to why the handles of my chisels stay in place. I will be interested to see what others contribute to the topic.

I've attached some pictures of the handle of one of my chisels.

You can see in the first picture, where the handle has been removed from the socket, that the cone shaped end of the handle is nice and regular with a smooth surface. The shape of the cone matches the inside of the socket fairly well. I think this would serve to make sure that contact between the chisel handle and the socket is spread over a relatively large area and therefore the chisel handle would be more likely to stay in place due to friction.

If the cone on the end of your chisel handle was a bit irregular then I expect it would be harder to firmly lodge the handle in place because you might only have a few points of contact and therefore friction between the handle and the inside of the socket would be low.

In the second picture with the chisel handle in place you can see that there is a gap between the shoulder on the chisel handle that matches up with the end of the socket and the end of the socket itself. I think this also helps to keep the chisel handle in place because it gives the cone on the end of the handle the flexibility to move further into the socket. The cone would move further into the socket as you used it if for example the wood of the handle shrunk a bit due to normal wood movement.

Hope this answer helps.

 

[Mirboo]

Sorry, I forgot to add one thing.

Go the Socceroos!

 

[Chris Knight]

Evergreen,

Socketed wooden handles are normally just a friction fit inside the sockets and as Mirboo says, a few hearty whacks with a mallet should ensure they stay put. If yours doesn't then you may need to adjust the taper which is possibly not matching the inside of the socket perfectly.. I think box should be OK although come to think of it, most socket handles I have seen have been made of other woods.

 

[Alf]

...in my favourite old tools shop

Which is...? :-s

The 3/8 inch blade

Funny. I keep falling over 3/8" chisels too, and socket chisels as well. Very peculiar not to say unusual.

So, do socket handles come adrift more easily than tangs?

Yes. I've never yet found one with its handle still in place, and you don't want to ask me about the state of the socket on a Swan I found the other day. I could have cried. There's a lot to be said for tanged chisels.

Should I knock the the handle into the socket harder?

Quite possibly

Is box an unsuitable wood for this kind of handle?

Dunno - I did one and it's stayed on okay. But having cleaned up the Chisel Mountain recently I noticed the majority of busted handles were the box ones, so I'm likely to change it when the Tuit shows up anyway.

Should I use some epoxy resin in the socket (come to think of it, I think the old handle showed traces of adhesive)?

No!

Is there some other trick I'm missing here?

Ian's caught the ones I can think of.

Cheers, Alf

 

[David C]

Good answers.

Also check that the thin end of the taper, which must match the taper of the socket very closely, does not bottom out in the socket. 2mm of clearance should suffice for a reasonable time. This mirrors the shoulder clearance at the top of the socket, in Mirboo's excellent photo.

These handles can become loose in a spell of low humidity.

If in a rack, ensure that the metal is supported not the wooden handle.

L-N will supply long "Japanese style" paring handles for their chisels, an idea which I suggested. I find a handle can be changed in less than a minute, allowing one to match the handle length to the job in hand. You can easily turn your own customized handles, the only difficulty is to get the taper just right.

Handles are removed by rapping the handle side on a solid lump of timber, while holding the blade and rotating the handle. This works for all Japanese chisels as well, (Odate's book).

Before someone else mentions it, the cut has healed very well thank you and by some miracle, no tendon damage.....

David Charlesworth

 

[Nick W]

David,

Cut? What cut? You'd better tell us all about it, so we can all learn from your misfortune.

Nick

 

[Shady]

From the news section of David's website:

David added a note of excitement by pushing a very sharp chisel blade into his left hand, which necessitated two hours in casualty and two stiches. Thankfully it missed tendons and bones and his hand is fine, but several people have warned him to stay away from sharp objects in future.

Ouch...

 

[Evergreen]

Many thanks to one and all for the advice.

Alf - the toolshop was Penny Farthing Tools in Salisbury. I also bought a large and beautiful swan neck mortice chisel by I Sorby. Tried to walk away but couldn't resist it. I'll have to replace a wooden door somewhere and fit a new mortice lock just to justify it!

Mirboo - great pictures. I know where those chisels came from!

David - glad to hear your hand has recovered. If it's the injury you suffered at the last APTC show, I was standing 10 feet away when you did it! Looked very painful indeed.

The idea of chisels with easily changed handles is novel for me but as long as I know that the handle can be/become detached, I can take account of it. Garrett Hack was right about this particular make - Messrs Peck, Stow and Wilcox (sound like solicitors?) knew how to make fine chisels. Mine holds its edge better than most of the others, new and old, in my collection.

Thanks once again for your help.

Regards.

 

[bugbear]

I would advise that the tip of the (wooden) taper should NOT bottom out in the socket, and that the shoulder of the handle should also NOT hit the top of the taper.

Otherwise your tapers won't be touching.

BugBear

 

[MarcW]

Hi all

...Is box an unsuitable wood for this kind of handle?...

Hi,

Box is suited. Two years back I bought japanese chisels with box handles. I have mortice chisel from Robert Sorby. Both work well and I had til now no problem with box handles in tang chisels.

Regards, Marc

PS: I never know whether to write mortice with c or s. I always thought c for singular and s for plural, but is that right? :?

 

[Alf]

Ouch...

Ouch indeed. And without the comfort of having the sharpness of your edge confirmed - 'cos you knew that anyway... #-o

EG, that's okay then - just didn't want to miss a dealer I didn't know about.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Shady]

Box is suited. Two years back I bought japanese chisels with box handles. I have mortice chisel from Robert Sorby. Both work well and I had til now no problem with box handles in tang chisels.

Marc - that's a major league gloat-fest of a picture there... :wink:

 

[David C]

With very ingenious rotating chisel rack?

David Charlesworth

 

[Alf]

'Tis very cool indeed. I went and dug out the thread about it from WoodCentral, for your drooling pleasure.

Cheers, Alf

 

[dedee]

Marc, have you any phortos of the finished cabinet ie with the door?
From Woodcentral thread

The door will have 10 cm depth and will house a lot of other tools, mainly saws

Andy

 

[Evergreen]

Marc

Both your tool cabinet and its contents are spectacular. I even notice it's above a radiator. Good grief! A centally heated workshop! When can I move to Luxembourg?

Regards.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I went and dug out the thread about it from WoodCentral, for your drooling pleasure.

Just had a look. WOW :shock: :shock: That's a real cool tool cabinet 8) 8)

Paul

 

[Bernhard]

As I have seen this cabinet in real life I can tell you it is defenitely larger than you might expect from the photo Really georgous. Hope that you will be able to finish the doors soon Marc.

Bernhard

 

[Alf]

Hope that you will be able to finish the doors soon Marc.

Ah hah, so he is human after all!

Cheers, Alf