Social distancing, .. what's that?

[Selwyn]

yes, he means false negative


Coronavirus testing at airports may give a "false sense of security", Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said, after suggestions it could be used to cut quarantine times for travellers.
Mr Johnson said testing on arrival would only identify 7% of virus cases.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54031912

No such thing as a false negative

 

[Selwyn]

Thank you for agreeing with me that its not possible to compare 2020 flu statisitcs with covid.

I'm actually having a bit of a problem following your train of thought. So I'm not sure I agree with you or not as I can't ascertain exactly what you mean.

 

[RobinBHM]

Not at all. Not least because sometimes someone who is 87 may have a combination of flu/covid/ pneumonia/ cancer/ dementia etc within them yet if they test positive for Covid it goes down as a covid death regardless of these other issues.

I'm saying Covid is very likely overstated. 24th biggest killer in august, mostly killing those with comorbidities or near the departure lounge in life. I'm all about the data, this is not the great plague

and as I said, the excess death figure agrees with the covid death figure

and you keep avoiding the obvious thing: that is the deaths from covid despite massive intervention
the vast majority of vulnerable people -=especially the elderly, or those with conditions shielded during the first wave.

So the argument you keep repeating is based on a false premise.

 

[RobinBHM]

No such thing as a false negative

false negative

noun

1. a test result which wrongly indicates that a particular condition or attribute is absent.

 

[Selwyn]

false negative

noun

1. a test result which wrongly indicates that a particular condition or attribute is absent.

You cant get a false negative pcr

 

[SammyQ]

PCR: a.k.a. Polymerase Chain Reaction...it does what it says on the tin. It amplifies what is there. Your statement " You can't get a false negative pcr " is conflating facts mightily and does little save exhibit your ignorance. Go work for Trump.

For those who are not following, PCR only makes what DNA is present in the test sample more plentiful. If, for some reason, covid DNA is not in said test sample, it will not be amplified. So, in a universe, far, far, removed from probability, a Corona-virus carrier, who (miraculously) gives a blood sample free of C19DNA, will "test negative". This scenario is specious, utterly so, so the " You can't get a false negative pcr " statement is pseudo-science and complete tosh.

Sam

 

[Selwyn]

and as I said, the excess death figure agrees with the covid death figure

and you keep avoiding the obvious thing: that is the deaths from covid despite massive intervention
the vast majority of vulnerable people -=especially the elderly, or those with conditions shielded during the first wave.

So the argument you keep repeating is based on a false premise.

Oh no I would agree that when covid first came out that it definitely contributed to an awful lot of deaths. That is obvious

I can't understand your middle sentence. What is my false premise? You need to write a bit more clearly and I will definitely respond with clarity to make my point

 

[Selwyn]

PCR: a.k.a. Polymerase Chain Reaction...it does what it says on the tin. It amplifies what is there. Your statement " You can't get a false negative pcr " is conflating facts mightily and does little save exhibit your ignorance. Go work for Trump.

Sam

But if is not there and you are not showing symptoms how on earth can you call it a covid "Case". We are all constantly under attack from virus and we can find all sorts in us - we don't say we are ill when we don't feel ill and the tests show we don't have an illness

 

[SammyQ]

See my edit above.

S.

 

[FatmanG]

PCR: a.k.a. Polymerase Chain Reaction...it does what it says on the tin. It amplifies what is there. Your statement " You can't get a false negative pcr " is conflating facts mightily and does little save exhibit your ignorance. Go work for Trump.

For those who are not following, PCR only makes what DNA is present in the test sample more plentiful. If, for some reason, covid DNA is not in said test sample, it will not be amplified. So, in a universe, far, far, removed from probability, a Corona-virus carrier, who (miraculously) gives a blood sample free of C19DNA, will "test negative". This scenario is specious, utterly so, so the " You can't get a false negative pcr " statement is pseudo-science and complete tosh.

Sam

What you fail to point out in your ignorance that it cant detect whether the virus is active or not. And your go work for Trump comment what's that all about? Totally irrelevant!

 

[SammyQ]

FatmanG? Ignorance is "not knowing"? Really? I am a Biologist, have been for 39 years. PCR is not a test, its a tool - to make more covid DNA - to enable a subsequent covid test.
Using "PCR" and "test" conflated together is balderdash. They are two separate procedures, admittedly used one after t'other in some medical scenarios.
To mangle them.together is symptomatic of the bluster and pseudoscience the Trump administration employs to manufacture announcements designed to appeal.to their voters.
I consider two trolls now fed.

Sam

 

[artie]

yes, he means false negative

No no no.
I don't mind if you are scared, I don't mind if you misunderstand, I don't mind if you stick to your guns even when you're wrong, but don't tell me that positive means negative, that's a step too far, even for you.

 

[Selwyn]

FatmanG? Ignorance is "not knowing"? Really? I am a Biologist, have been for 39 years. PCR is not a test, its a tool - to make more covid DNA - to enable a subsequent covid test.
Using "PCR" and "test" conflated together is balderdash. They are two separate procedures, admittedly used one after t'other in some medical scenarios.
To mangle them.together is symptomatic of the bluster and pseudoscience the Trump administration employs to manufacture announcements designed to appeal.to their voters.
I consider two trolls now fed.

Sam

Er, I think you were trolling me. I'm all about the data - the data isn't there to support the reaction. If we stopped testing people without actual symptoms and changed the pcr cycles to 30-35 then most of this nonsense wouldn't exist and we could just see things for what they really are

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I've been hiding for the last day or so, and things seem to have moved on on a bit here. Backing up to the point I was trying trying to make, rather badly it would seem, I put up a worldwide fatality rate for covid 19 being 0.14%, based on 10% of the world population being infection, and the million known deaths. @RobinBHM tells me categorically that influenza death rate is 10 times lower than this, Ie. 0.014%, presumably.

The font of all truth and wisdom, also known as wikipedia, suggests that the average influenza infects 300,000 to one billion people, and the death rate death rate worldwide is 290,000–650,000/year. If the coronavirus has currently infected 800,000ish people, and killed one million, then it is less than twice as deadly as the average influenza. We haven't even started looking at bad years. I therefore dispute the 10 times more deadly epithet for our novel coronavirus.

I fully accept that a lot of people are being infected, and there are a lot of measures to try and stop this, but the rates of death once infected look to be in about the same ballpark, as they say in America. You could get me to agree that they are a bit higher, but not significantly so. So the question is - if I am out by a factor of ten, what did I do wrong?

 

[SammyQ]

[/QUOTE]

If we stopped testing people without actual symptoms

Oh dear...ever heard of "asymptomatic,"???

 

[Rorschach]

Oh dear...ever heard of "asymptomatic,"???

If they are asymptomatic they are not sick are they? Counting them is just to add to the fear.
As to how much asymptomatic spread the disease, well pretty low chance since they are not coughing and presumably not producing much virus either since they are not ill.

 

[Selwyn]

Oh dear...ever heard of "asymptomatic,"???
[/QUOTE]

I have and we are making an excessive reaction to the asymptomatics.

 

[artie]

Oh dear...ever heard of "asymptomatic,"???
[/QUOTE]
Not until recently.

It used to be that if you felt poorly you went to the doctor.

Nowadays even though you are on top of the world, you need to go and get tested, to see if you have an assortment of cancers or virus. Even though you might live out your life quite happily without being impacted.

 

[FatmanG]

FatmanG? Ignorance is "not knowing"? Really? I am a Biologist, have been for 39 years. PCR is not a test, its a tool - to make more covid DNA - to enable a subsequent covid test.
Using "PCR" and "test" conflated together is balderdash. They are two separate procedures, admittedly used one after t'other in some medical scenarios.
To mangle them.together is symptomatic of the bluster and pseudoscience the Trump administration employs to manufacture announcements designed to appeal.to their voters.
I consider two trolls now fed.

Sam

Once again a know all calling out anyone who disagrees with them a troll. Grow up! A PCR test can only identify the presence of material namely HIV. Its not meant as a weapon to test healthy asymptomatic young people then blame them for killing Granny. I don't give a damn about Trump and your political views but I do care about my children and grandchildren and what's the future for them and any imbecile can see this virus is being used to create fear and change our whole way of life all because the poorly and old are in danger! They were before the virus and always will be. World economic destruction for WHAT?
From where I can see Trumps the only one to remotely tell the truth

 

[SammyQ]

"I have and we are making an excessive reaction to the asymptomatics. "

OK, all you Long-Covid sufferers, step right up and tell Selwyn et al how you would rather have had YOUR asymptomatic 'spreader' detected by testing, rather than given YOU the disease...Of course, he/she/it would have had to self-isolate and then you would not have contracted Cov-19 from them?....

Sam