Social distancing, .. what's that?

[doctor Bob]

-----

 

[Rorschach]

And you thought I was bad for ranting about rubbish!

 

[RobinBHM]

Vaccine is also pointless without long term immunity which the pro lock downers keep saying we don't have.

That's a false argument, any vaccine that gets to market will have been tested to ensure reasonable immunity period.

you can't assume natural immunity timeframe and vaccine immunity timeframe would be the same.


Mass vaccination and naturally acquired immunity do not have the same results.

Also please don't assume those against herd immunity are pro lock downers.

 

[FatmanG]

Good to see you back Fatman, I was a bit concerned after you disappeared after that rash. Did you have COVID? Hope your family is bearing up.

Sorry to hear you have contracted that weird boggly-eyed gates conspiracy syndrome though.

That rash was an infection in my mangled old legs. I developed a fever and was pretty poorly but I'm here, well and as strong as an ox physically and mentally thanks for asking.
As for Gates my eyes are wide open. I'm not as arrogant as the majority of society to think I know everything but I'm old enough and have enough life experience to know when 2+2 makes 5. You spend your whole life learning and your success usually depends on the quality of the teaching and the information hey teach. Hitler was so successful in conning the German people because of his total ownership of the media. Ministry of Propaganda. He tore up the Versailles treaty and put starving people to work rebuilding the military. I bet the Jews who were sounding the alarm back then were mocked as conspiracy theorists and we saw how that turned out. There are a hell of a lot of basic questions that need answering. There is a money trail that leads to Gates but even without that the main question the world needs to know how does a software tyrant end p being one of the biggest influencers in the WHO? Influencing the pandemic response. He's the 2020 JD Rockerfella, philanthropist my japs optic sphere.

 

[Selwyn]

Utter rubbish.

If we had 1 death per million, we would have about 60 or so deaths. We actually have over 40,000.

Running at one per 1 Million per day away from the very obvious spike at the beginning. That doesn't mean just 60 per day die or whatever. Its the actual death rate from Covid trend once its endemic. I'll let you into a secret - people die every day from lots more than covid

 

[artie]

Not one comment???

 

[Selwyn]

Whataboutery.

It is more severe for survivors.....that's simple fact.

Would you like a list of the long term issues Covid survivors are experiencing..

Given that we have already had 604k cases of covid and probably many more unregistered the vast majority of whom had no or minor symptoms then overall I'd say the vast majority of the "survivors" have not found it severe at all. Simple fact

Out of all this some didn't notice they had it
Some got mildly ill for a few days
Some felt very ill for a few days
Some went to hospital and came out
Some went to ICU, got very sick and came out
Some died.

Of those who died. A good 25-30% were in care homes where any life expectancy is limited (average stay in care home is about 6-8 months), Another 30-40% of these would have been over 70. Not all spring chickens but probably a lot not in fine fettle.

The rest were a mixture of known comorbidities, unknown comorbidities, extremely high exposure (ie health staff) and then another very small portion of people who were just very very unlucky being young and fit but got unlucky.

 

[Selwyn]

That is not the mortality of Covid.

And you are repeating the same mistake of many others by comparing to flu.

you are comparing Covid deaths in which a massive global effort has been to reduce deaths to flu where there hasn't. And they aren't deaths from flu but FLI flu like symptoms

Its mortality is slightly higher than flu at the moment and it is of course more virulent. Flu still appears to be the bigger killer by a vast majority and how you think you can reduce covid yet not reduce flu as if you think we know how to let one circulate and not the other leaves me flummoxed.

No one is saying Covid is not a serious disease for some of the vulnerable. What they are saying is 1. is the reaction proportionate 2. is the reaction effective. I also want to know how to keep an endemic virus out of the population

 

[RobinBHM]

you think you can reduce covid yet not reduce flu as if you think we know how to let one circulate and not the other leaves me flummoxed

Where did I say that?
flu statistics are all historical, there are no meaningful statistics for flu deaths 2020

the only statistics available are the ONS figures which cover "flu like illness + pneumonia"

 

[Selwyn]

Where did I say that?
flu statistics are all historical, there are no meaningful statistics for flu deaths 2020

the only statistics available are the ONS figures which cover "flu like illness + pneumonia"

Often when someone is very old they die. The final cause of death can be varied - pneumonia, flu etc because as the body starts to die/ slow down these things take a hold. Pneumonia used to known as "old mans friend". I would imagine a lot of Covid was put on death certificates before because people tested for Covid in hospital but they may have hung on a bit longer (months/ weeks/ who knows) but the novel virus would have hurried it along (along with care home staff not being around so much ,not seeing anyone etc)

 

[RobinBHM]

Its mortality is slightly higher than flu

the mortality of covid is higher than flu DESPITE massive interventions to reduce covid.

 

[RobinBHM]

how you think you can reduce covid yet not reduce flu

I havent said that.

and social distancing has reduced flu:

The Southern Hemisphere skipped flu season this year, likely because of social distancing



Flu season in the Southern Hemisphere, though, came and went with so few cases that there was "virtually no influenza circulation," according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
CDC experts believe that efforts like social distancing, mask-wearing and school closures might have critically crippled flu season in countries in the Southern Hemisphere.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/01/health/flu-season-southern-hemisphere-covid-trnd/index.htmlhttps://www.who.int/influenza/surveillance_monitoring/updates/latest_update_GIP_surveillance/en/https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-season-never-came-to-the-southern-hemisphere/https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htmhttps://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...t-coming-flu-season-scientists-struggle-clues

 

[Selwyn]

the mortality of covid is higher than flu DESPITE massive interventions to reduce covid.

In absolute terms no its not. Flu kills a lot more. Covid is the 24th most common cause of death is August 2020 in the UK.

 

[Selwyn]

I havent said that.

and social distancing has reduced flu:

The Southern Hemisphere skipped flu season this year, likely because of social distancing



Flu season in the Southern Hemisphere, though, came and went with so few cases that there was "virtually no influenza circulation," according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
CDC experts believe that efforts like social distancing, mask-wearing and school closures might have critically crippled flu season in countries in the Southern Hemisphere.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/01/health/flu-season-southern-hemisphere-covid-trnd/index.htmlhttps://www.who.int/influenza/surveillance_monitoring/updates/latest_update_GIP_surveillance/en/https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-season-never-came-to-the-southern-hemisphere/https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htmhttps://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...t-coming-flu-season-scientists-struggle-clues

Flu seasons ebb and flow. Also flu seasons depend totally on the climatic conditions and humidity of the area - a flue season in the tropics acts differently to northen europe. We have data that sometimes flu is bad and sometimes its not - the virus is the same though. In the UK as we come into the summer months the deaths from flu tend to decline rapidly for a range of reasons (and yes social distancing no doubt makes a difference) and then increase again from now. Have you ever known the hospitals not to be full of patients this time of year?

 

[FatmanG]

I rubbish GBD because it isn't based on science. It's based on ideology.
How about you provide some answers as to how you think the vulnerable can protected enough to allow herd immunity.
[/QUOT
Everything you post Robin is based on fear linked to nothing more than what you are spoon fed. You keep going on about science but you pick and choose which science suits the problem is there is contradictory science and scientists that are putting forward a different narrative but they are shut down, censored cancelled and slurred. You did the exact same thing citing a right wing funder as some sort of reason for it to be disregarded. You have journalists calling for corporations like Facebook,google etc to censor any dissenting voices which should set massive alarm bells ringing. There's been the shutdown of drs who used hydroxychloroquine and zinc and had actual proof it worked on real people yet the machine went into overdrive publishing studies that got the treatment banned. Why? Its been used for 50+ years. Its banned because there's no money in it for big pharma. Why financially incentivise hospitals to diagnose and intubate patients? Why register a death as 'with covid 19' if tested positive within 28 days? Why are we testing people who are healthy who have no symptoms who have nothing wrong with them and calling that a case and using them in the figures as positive cases which is then used to justify more restrictions and lockdowns and demonized in the media. These are legitimate questions that need answering but you are classed as a but, smeared and cancelled if you ask them.
You Robin are like a frightened little boy who can't think for himself. You would grass on your best friend to the authorities. You Sir are why dangerous people can get away with peddling their agendas without question. History is repeating itself and you are a co conspirator. Take the blindfold off lad

 

[RobinBHM]

Often when someone is very old they die. The final cause of death can be varied - pneumonia, flu etc because as the body starts to die/ slow down these things take a hold. Pneumonia used to known as "old mans friend". I would imagine a lot of Covid was put on death certificates before because people tested for Covid in hospital but they may have hung on a bit longer (months/ weeks/ who knows) but the novel virus would have hurried it along (along with care home staff not being around so much ,not seeing anyone etc)

flu deaths as reported by ONS are for "Flu like symptoms + pneumonia"

So do agree that means trying to compare flu deaths with covid deaths as some newspapers has done and some on here, is pointless?

 

[RobinBHM]

Not one comment???

yes, he means false negative


Coronavirus testing at airports may give a "false sense of security", Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said, after suggestions it could be used to cut quarantine times for travellers.
Mr Johnson said testing on arrival would only identify 7% of virus cases.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54031912

 

[Selwyn]

flu deaths as reported by ONS are for "Flu like symptoms + pneumonia"

So do agree that means trying to compare flu deaths with covid deaths as some newspapers has done and some on here, is pointless?

Not at all. Not least because sometimes someone who is 87 may have a combination of flu/covid/ pneumonia/ cancer/ dementia etc within them yet if they test positive for Covid it goes down as a covid death regardless of these other issues.

I'm saying Covid is very likely overstated. 24th biggest killer in august, mostly killing those with comorbidities or near the departure lounge in life. I'm all about the data, this is not the great plague

 

[doctor Bob]

Sure, in this country.
Not in countries that locked down faster and use mass test and trace.

You have lost me...........
We are talking about GDP here, New zealand locked down faster................... projected GDP -12%

 

[RobinBHM]

Flu seasons ebb and flow. Also flu seasons depend totally on the climatic conditions and humidity of the area - a flue season in the tropics acts differently to northen europe. We have data that sometimes flu is bad and sometimes its not - the virus is the same though. In the UK as we come into the summer months the deaths from flu tend to decline rapidly for a range of reasons (and yes social distancing no doubt makes a difference) and then increase again from now. Have you ever known the hospitals not to be full of patients this time of year?

Thank you for agreeing with me that its not possible to compare 2020 flu statisitcs with covid.