Social distancing, .. what's that?

[RobinBHM]

appropriate solemnness and tones full of dread

Do you think the emotive embellishments add weight to your argument?

people who tell us to use antibacterial hand sanitiser to stop a virus

The term "anti bacterial hand sanitiser" is the commonly used term to distinguish it from just hand soap.

The recommendations to use it do specify the alcohol content required to kill viruses......you seem to have forgotten to mention that.

 

[RobinBHM]

Just want to touch on the almighty R number, which gets mentioned with appropriate solemnness and tones full of dread.
According to the BBC..

How is R calculated?
You can't capture the moment people are infected. Instead, scientists work backwards.
Data - such as the number of people dying, admitted to hospital or testing positive for the virus over time - is used to estimate how easily the virus is spreading.

And they can do this on a day to day basis?
Another load of spherical objects from the people who tell us to use antibacterial hand sanitiser to stop a virus.

Politics has adopted the R value because it provides an easy metric.

In reality calculating the R value is very difficult, so using numbers isn't all that meaningful.

That doesn't discredit the importance of infection rates, the exponential nature of infections is an important consideration in decision making.

 

[FatmanG]

Apparantly a UK google search for the Great Barrington Declaration does not bring it up anymore, just news articles on it.
Use a VPN and it comes up, so it is being geographically blocked, I'm amazed by this, this sort of thing happens in China not uk.
Maybe I'm wrong, I hope so.

I've being trying to expose this for months. The narrative is being controlled and anything going against is shut down, removed and the author cancelled. This is facism! If what is said is rubbish, debate, evidence etc will expose it but it has the right to be said.

As for Robin he is part of the problem. He rubbishes GBD on the basis its funded by a right wing political supporter yet totally ignored the fact that the WHO biggest funder is Bill Gates but I suppose that's OK. The fact its politicized at all makes me question everything.

 

[doctor Bob]

Provided a vaccine comes along soon, pent up demand should see a bounce back......but sadly not in hospitality sectors.

Sorry the damage is done and getting worse. Unemployment is going to be massive. Debt beyond anything we have seen since WW2.
You're just wishful thinking that a vaccine is a cure all.

 

[artie]

You're just wishful thinking that a vaccine is a cure all.

There's been a flu vaccine for many years, yet the flu hasn't gone away.

 

[Rorschach]

Vaccine is also pointless without long term immunity which the pro lock downers keep saying we don't have.

 

[Selwyn]

No they aren't.

Mortality of Covid is around 10x greater.

And as an illness it is far more severe for survivors.

How is it more severe for survivors if it seems most of the people who get it aren't even aware they had it?

It could be the case that many people have a bad dose of what can be a serious and what is a novel virus and so do struggle to get over it. Mortality of Covid is currently pretty steady at one person in a million per day (out of hospital) but once you go into hospital your chances of survival get worse even if you went in without covid. Stats say a 0.04-5% chance of death which is a little over flu. But again a novel virus and back in April it may have a killed a good deal of people who were very old and very ill anyway.

No one is saying it is not for some people a very serious virus. But we have lost a lot of sense of perspective and we seem to have diverted from the science now especially with these kneejerk lockdowns

 

[Rorschach]

Comparing to flu is tricky. I know I have said it before that is similar (which it is from stats) but we don't test for flu very often and we also have a vaccine.

So flu could be a lot less deadly than we think (as we don't test) but it also could be a lot more deadly (but mitigated by the fact we have a vaccine). Certainly to the best of our knowledge the Spanish flu of 1919ish was a lot more deadly than C19 is and even worse than that it "targeted" the young and the healthy whereas we know for certain that C19 kills almost exclusively the very old or those with chronic conditions.

 

[artie]

It's very long, but interesting.

 

[Dibs-h]

Sorry the damage is done and getting worse. Unemployment is going to be massive. Debt beyond anything we have seen since WW2.

Totally agree - more is to come and it isn't going to be pretty.

 

[Droogs]

I think this long covid thing could be a lot worse for the long term than the immediate death toll

https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/doctors-with-long-covid
If it's like this for Drs what about everyone else who ends up like this, over 100k in UK alone so far

 

[Jake]

I've being trying to expose this for months. The narrative is being controlled and anything going against is shut down, removed and the author cancelled. This is facism! If what is said is rubbish, debate, evidence etc will expose it but it has the right to be said.

As for Robin he is part of the problem. He rubbishes GBD on the basis its funded by a right wing political supporter yet totally ignored the fact that the WHO biggest funder is Bill Gates but I suppose that's OK. The fact its politicized at all makes me question everything.

Good to see you back Fatman, I was a bit concerned after you disappeared after that rash. Did you have COVID? Hope your family is bearing up.

Sorry to hear you have contracted that weird boggly-eyed gates conspiracy syndrome though.

 

[alex_heney]

Lockdown kills people too. Currently we have about 1 death per million in the UK. It is not a lot - those deaths are probably racked with comorbidities too.

Utter rubbish.

If we had 1 death per million, we would have about 60 or so deaths. We actually have over 40,000.

 

[Rorschach]

Utter rubbish.

If we had 1 death per million, we would have about 60 or so deaths. We actually have over 40,000.

1 death per million per day obviously.

 

[RobinBHM]

Sorry the damage is done and getting worse. Unemployment is going to be massive. Debt beyond anything we have seen since WW2.
You're just wishful thinking that a vaccine is a cure all.

Sure, in this country.
Not in countries that locked down faster and use mass test and trace.

We are going to have to learn to live with Covid, now and even once we get a vaccine.


If you think herd immunity is the solution, let's hear how it would work.

 

[RobinBHM]

How is it more severe for survivors if it seems most of the people who get it aren't even aware they had it

Whataboutery.

It is more severe for survivors.....that's simple fact.

Would you like a list of the long term issues Covid survivors are experiencing..

 

[RobinBHM]

Mortality of Covid is currently pretty steady at one person in a million per day (out of hospital) but once you go into hospital your chances of survival get worse even if you went in without covid. Stats say a 0.04-5% chance of death which is a little over flu

That is not the mortality of Covid.

And you are repeating the same mistake of many others by comparing to flu.

you are comparing Covid deaths in which a massive global effort has been to reduce deaths to flu where there hasn't. And they aren't deaths from flu but FLI flu like symptoms

 

[RobinBHM]

There's been a flu vaccine for many years, yet the flu hasn't gone away.

Covid won't go away with a vaccine, but it allow a return to normality.

 

[RobinBHM]

As for Robin he is part of the problem. He rubbishes GBD on the basis its funded by a right wing political supporter

I rubbish GBD because it isn't based on science. It's based on ideology.
How about you provide some answers as to how you think the vulnerable can protected enough to allow herd immunity.

 

[RobinBHM]

ignored the fact that the WHO biggest funder is Bill Gates but I suppose that's OK

Whataboutery.

If you would like a discussion about Bill Gates, fine, let's have one.