Social distancing, .. what's that?

[artie]

in a previous post you said "there is no test for covid 19"

but there clearly is:
"Currently there are two types of diagnostic tests which detect the virus – molecular tests, such as RT-PCR tests, that detect the virus’s genetic material, and antigen tests that detect specific proteins on the surface of the virus."


If you claim there isnt a test, perhaps you could elaborate.......

Here's a video,



it's a bit long, but persevere for just the first 5 minutes.
The inventor of the pcr test is explaining about it.

 

[Regex]

Here's a video,

it's a bit long, but persevere for just the first 5 minutes.
The inventor of the pcr test is explaining about it.

Be wary of people who mince words to influence your emotions.

"Driving factor of the fear campaign, that is being driven by the media, the corrupt media [...]"
Emphasis mine.

He is appealing as to whether restrictions are constitutional, as opposed to whether they are effective or not.

The clip from the PCR test creator Kary Mullis doesn't prove anything, he just explains that PCR tests work by amplifying molecules to detectable levels.

The video creator then summarises the Mullis clip with this conclusion: Because the test cannot detect if you are "sick" (notice how he refers to symptoms here as opposed to having the virus), it should not be used as a test. What about if you have the virus (but are not sick), then inferred from having seen this video that tests are useless, but then pass it on to your granny later that night, who does end up becoming "sick"?

The video creator then wonders what Mullis might say about PCR being used for CV19 diagnostics. Impossible since he died August 2019. He then presents a clip about Mullis talking about his struggle to find scientific evidence for the idea that HIV causes AIDS. The ensuing 6 minute interview clip has absolutelty nothing to do with the discussion at hand, yet the video creator tries to draw some conclusion or relevance to discredit the use of PCR tests. He then goes on to insinuate that Mullis death was somehow related to this whole coronavirus thing, and that they (that nebulous entity in the sky) don't want dissenters like Mullis around, implying he was killed for this corona virus situation.

This is the point in the video at which major alarm bells should be ringing in your head. Various other clips are selectively cut and put into this video, from doctors (appealing to authority here), which have all been taken out of context to make you draw some conclusion.

The next clip is an interview from Dr Thomas Cowan, that sounds highlighly convincing and persuasive. However if you look this person up, it appears this is the same guy that claimed 5G is what is causing the corona virus pandemic.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/fact-check-viral-video-coronavirus-1.5506595
The entire video is highly manipulative. Please please please do extra fact checking when you see claims like those presented in this video, as spreading misinformation is not the way forward.

What is the purpose for fighting against diagnostic tests exactly? They will get better with time, and they can help save lives.

 

[RobinBHM]

Locking down the world because of a virus with a 99.4% survival rate is just one thing that comes to mind.

The survival rate of Covid is unknown. But in any case it is a meaningless statistic.

A virus that has the potential to spread so quickly it can overwhelm hospitals and it has.
A virus that has killed over 1 million globally
A virus that so far has killed 7000 health workers

And that is despite the massive efforts to reduce the virus spreading.

The global drop in GDP is forecast to be 2.5% in 2020

What specifically do you consider to be "hysterics"

 

[doctor Bob]

Most report 5%.
Where do you stop, is 10% OK, 15 or 20.

 

[artie]

The survival rate of Covid is unknown. But in any case it is a meaningless statistic.

A virus that has the potential to spread so quickly it can overwhelm hospitals and it has.
A virus that has killed over 1 million globally
A virus that so far has killed 7000 health workers

And that is despite the massive efforts to reduce the virus spreading.

The global drop in GDP is forecast to be 2.5% in 2020

What specifically do you consider to be "hysterics"

That my friend is bordering on hysteria.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

The media didn't lie
The advice changed, have a look at the WHO advice.....they updated their advice as the science research indicated some benefit.

The question is whether we pretend that the media are honest investigators searching for truth, or accept that they are just purveyors of government propaganda. Part of the worldwide corporate facist system, if you like. The government lied, and yet no heads roll, no questions asked, no one held accountable, because "it was for our good"?

Fauci was asked yesterday by financial news outlet The Street why the U.S. government didn’t promote masks early on during the pandemic. Fauci, who sits on the Trump regime’s zombie-like coronavirus task force, hinted that he knew masks worked, he just wanted any available masks to be saved for health care workers. Dr. Fauci Made the Coronavirus Pandemic Worse by Lying About Masks

“Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N-95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply,” Fauci said. “And we wanted to make sure that the people, namely the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected.”

Fauci didn’t just fail to promote masks early on, he actively discouraged the use of masks, saying they didn’t work. Americans are now paying the price because too many people think masks are useless to combat the coronavirus. In reality, masks have been shown to help prevent the spread of covid-19, as the CDC now admits.

I suppose you could argue that Fauci is a yank, therefore it doesn't count. The UK government did exactly the same, but were just inept, rather than outright lying? Or is the lie now that masks work? Which is true? All the research before 2020 suggests masks are futile without a full hospital protocol to go with it, and all the research since March says masks, even homemade bits of tea towel draped over your face are brilliant. Which is correct?

The technical term for this sort of thing is "hyper-reality", and Karl Rove explained it rather well:

We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.” (Ron Suskind, NYTimes Magazine, Oct. 17, 2004).

Reality is what they say it is. Julian Assange ' s extradition hearing is as fine an example of alternate realities as you could ever want to see. What is actually happening, and what is reported as happening (if reported at all) are two very different things. Which is odd, because if he is extradited, it sets the precedent for all journalists, worldwide, to be liable to be jailed by America should they ever release a US secret. You might think that journalists would have a vested interest in not letting him be kangaroo courted into oblivion.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

No the virus jumped from bats, it didn't develop to use humans as a host.

It isn't the intention of a virus to kill a host.

It's a virus. Our primordial ancestors had to deal with new viruses jumping from other hosts even before they climbed out of the ooze. This is not a new, unique, never-before-in-the-history-of-the-universe phenomenon. You don't have to have already had exposure to a specific virus before you can defend yourself against it otherwise no organism would ever survive the first encounter. Antibodies are not the only mechanism.

How else do so many people have symptomless infections (but absolutely NOT immunity, because it goes again the narrative)?

 

[Trainee neophyte]

@RobinBHM I won't go through the rest of your commentary on my post, because mostly Poe's Law applies. Entirely my fault, as I was apparently feeling a bit peevish when I wrote what I did. Most of what you pulled out was me being sarcastic, which never works well on the internet. In other words, yes, herd immunity will probably come into play at around 20% of the population being infected. We won't know until we get there, and we won't get there if everyone hides under their beds.

(This was supposed to be an edit to my previous post, but here it is, cluttering up the place as a standalone post. No idea what happened)

 

[RobinBHM]

That my friend is bordering on hysteria.

I agree, claiming "locking down the world" does seem hysterical when the hit to GDP is 2.5%


That shows why using subjective, emotive adjectives such as "fearmongering" and "hysterical" is of no value.

I have asked Rorschach and you, who are using those terms, to qualify them, which allow the opportunity to have value in this debate........but neither of you do.

 

[RobinBHM]

Here's a video,



it's a bit long, but persevere for just the first 5 minutes.
The inventor of the pcr test is explaining about it.

Thank you for posting that, it's an interesting video.

Unfortunately it tells us rather more about the motivation of spiro skouras, than it does about the PCR test.

The video builds its case on a false premise: “PCR basically takes a sample of your cells and amplifies any DNA to look for ‘viral sequences" -which is incorrect.

Because:
” PCR tests do not indiscriminately amplify any DNA in a sample; they are designed to target only the nucleic acid sequence from the microorganism of interest (specificity), in this case SARS-CoV-2, the virus causing COVID-19

https://sciencefeedback.co/claimrev...ontrary-to-claims-in-viral-article-and-video/

Spiro Skouras
We need to be careful with his assertions, Spiro is a conspiracist, he posts articles and videos about:
The Great Reset Plan Revealed: How COVID Ushers In The New World Order. He talks about Bill Gates, Soros, Elon Musk and the New World Order.

 

[RobinBHM]

Most report 5%.
Where do you stop, is 10% OK, 15 or 20.

The science is emerging in parallel with governments decisions on control.

Back in March most countries put some form of partial lockdown to reduce R rate and to try and stop hospitals from being overwhelmed.
It would be a difficult argument to make, that governments should've just let the virus run.

Since then, more science is emerging, doctors have better treatment plans and most organised countries have quite effective testing programmes.

So any lockdowns should be restricted to local areas or sectors.

Countries with comprehensive testing seem to have less of an economic hit and less lockdown.


It's easy to simplify argument down an appeal to extremes fallacy, but that doesn't provide any answers. We can't ignore the virus, so we have to live with it, some form of restriction of the economy where needed to maintain social distancing seems reasonable.

 

[doctor Bob]

I agree, claiming "locking down the world" does seem hysterical when the hit to GDP is 2.5%

Sorry to repeat but most reckon it's 5% not 2.5%. Can I assume therefore I can reduce the death toll by half to make it seem more acceptable?

 

[FatmanG]

If anyone is interested finally proper public health scientists from across the world are offering a real plan, one that is achievable that works that's based on pure science and doesn't involve any further lockdown.
Great Barrington Declaration

 

[Rorschach]

If anyone is interested finally proper public health scientists from across the world are offering a real plan, one that is achievable that works that's based on pure science and doesn't involve any further lockdown.
Great Barrington Declaration

I posted a video about it a couple of days ago, not that anyone watched it I assume.

 

[user22161]

I've just returned to the UK after being in Portugal since early June and find very different attitudes. On the Algarve, we were in a low virus area and being aboard a boat for much of the time reduced our risk even further. People just accept the mandatory requirement to wear a mask indoors is sensible and don't moan about it and every shop has hand sanitiser at the entrance/exit. Further north in Lisbon, far more cases and many people wearing masks on the streets and more noticeable distancing. Local lockdowns in some areas.

Back here in the UK, I can't understand the resistance to wearing masks and distancing, a friend even saw one guy take his mask off to sneeze - *****! Watching TV reports, can't believe the crowds of youngsters outside pubs and clubs, without masks or distancing. Don't they realise that although most will only show mild symptoms if any, they will transmit to those at risk? With these attitudes, what's going to happen when winter coughs and colds are around to spread the virus even faster?

I'm not a Boris fan but doubt anyone else would have done much better due to everyone's practical inexperience of pandemics. I don't however understand why all four countries of the UK can't sing from the same hymn sheet and standardise restrictions with targeted local lockdowns so everyone can understand the rules. Stupid that I can't go to Sainsburys 5 miles away over the county boundary but English from high risk areas are coming to their caravans.

P.S. Why does idi*t get changed to silly person? PC gone mad!

 

[Woody2Shoes]

If anyone is interested finally proper public health scientists from across the world are offering a real plan, one that is achievable that works that's based on pure science and doesn't involve any further lockdown.
Great Barrington Declaration

It should - if we're getting all scientific - better be called the Barrington Hypothesis.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I'm having a slack Friday afternoon, as we have a virus-ridden child off from school. Impressive given that masks are worn at all times during school classes, and only 5 minutes between each class outside without masks to get to the next class. Masks are obviously vital, and protect like anything.

Anyway, it's not Covid19 (probably), so nothing to worry about and I am drinking coffee and reading odd articles. I found this:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2020/october/how-many-more-will-be-dead-by-christmas

 

[RobinBHM]

If anyone is interested finally proper public health scientists from across the world are offering a real plan, one that is achievable that works that's based on pure science and doesn't involve any further lockdown.
Great Barrington Declaration

I am sorry but I don't really think the Great Barrington Declaration can be accurately described as
"Proper health scientists"
"Pure science"

Great Barrington Declaration was signed at the Great Barrington Headquarters of the American Institute for Economic Research.......a right wing libertarian group which has nothing to do with epidemiology and a lot to do with vested interest.

 

[RobinBHM]

I posted a video about it a couple of days ago, not that anyone watched it I assume.

Yes I watched it and Ive looked into the Great Barrington Declaration.

it would appear to have a political motivation

It doesnt address the problem that there is no scientific research that proves immunity is acquired through natural infection, or if it is, for how long.

There have been some studies that give a bit of hope that immune cells do recognise the virus and persist for some months after infection. So far there is no peer reviewed study.

 

[Rorschach]

I am sorry but I don't really think the Great Barrington Declaration can be accurately described as
"Proper health scientists"
"Pure science"

Great Barrington Declaration was signed at the Great Barrington Headquarters of the American Institute for Economic Research.......a right wing libertarian group which has nothing to do with epidemiology and a lot to do with vested interest.

Did you see the 3 main signatories? Not proper scientists? You have representatives of the 3 most important medical schools in the world!
I give up with you and will not engage any more, you are wasting our time.