Smoothing and scrub recommendations please

[Paul Chapman]

Might start with a cheap eBay #5 or something like that. I worry that this will be too wide though ?

I don't think you should worry too much about the width of the plane, Ed. With a heavily cambered blade, only the central portion of it is cutting, so although a #5 has a 2" blade, the effective cutting width is far less - which is why you can easily take thick cuts.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Aled Dafis]

A mate has a metal shop/business milling and CNC'ing stuff. I was toying with the idea of getting him to machine up some metal parts and have a go at making a smoother (prob buy the LN #4 anyway).

Was thinking of 'being inspired' by the small smoother from holtey (11SA) or the one that Derek had from Brese.

Ed, if you can hang on a few weeks, then I may be able to help you out. I've not had much free time lately, but my small smoother kit is still slowly hobbling along the pipeline.

Cheers

Aled

 

[marcus]

Hi Paul! you wrote:

For example, by using a longer plane, you can remove heavy amounts of material while squaring up and flattening the workpiece, rather than having to use a short plane, then a long one, to achieve the desired result.

Absolutely! It's really surprising how quickly and easily you can flatten a board in this way.

I used to look at the output of the early Arts and Crafts furniture makers - Sidney Barnsley's in particular - and be amazed at how he managed to produce so much furniture, of such high quality, working only with hand tools (SB used no machines at all). It seemed an extraordinary feat for a man who was originally an architect and designer (ie not brought up doing grafting work) and came to furniture making later on.

I have read that the only bench planes he really used were a no7 and a block, and so it now makes a bit more sense to me how he managed the labour of preparing all that stock.....

Cheers

Marcus

 

[Paul Chapman]

I have read that the only bench planes he really used were a no7 and a block

Just like Alan Peters (although Alan went on to use machines).

By the way, Marcus, some lovely work on your site.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Modernist]

There seems to be 2 threads running together here!

Firstly re the scrub, I am confused. Should it be smoother, Jack or even No 7 length? I thought they were normally smoother.

I can't see the point in investing in LN or V quality for this application. I was thinking of converting a Stanley No 4 or 5 hence my question above. Presumably it would be worth getting a thick blade and filing the mouth to suit.

Alternatively what are the pros's and cons about toothed blades vs high camber.

Re the original question about the smoother my choice would be a LN 4 1/2 which does everything I could wish and stays sharp for ages with the A2.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Firstly re the scrub, I am confused. Should it be smoother, Jack or even No 7 length? I thought they were normally smoother.


Alternatively what are the pros's and cons about toothed blades vs high camber.

Normally scrub planes are about smoother size but they can be whatever you want them to be. I find a longer plane, say a #7, does the job more effectively.

The main point about toothed blades is that they will give you a finish without the tear-out that you get from a heavily cambered blade. You can use it after or instead of the scrub blade. Here's a good demo by Deneb Puchalski http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pxKo1vj ... re=related Deneb uses the blade in a low-angle, bevel-up plane but I use one in my bevel-down, #7 Record.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[EdK]

Been thinking about scrubs and looking around on eBay for 'converters'. Found a #6 'Silverline' plane but not too sure about it.

Then I got thinking about blades. Ray Iles sells D2 ones that are 1 3/4" for £23 (RI030 - 1 ¾”) and you can get a replacement HCS Veritas one for £7.50 (or in A2 the LN one for £27 or Veritas for £31). At any rate it is easy to get a decent narrow blade.

So thought about making either a simple wooden plane for this blade - probably the D2 one as the blade needs to be tough rather than 'sharp' (it will be sharp but not smoother sharp - or have I got this wrong).

At any rate a simple wooden plane should be fine for a scrub. Was thinking of making it maybe fore plane length - 18". Might even add some lead inserts for mass and balance. Guess it doesn't need to be too much of a refined plane and almost an ideal project for a first plane as tolerances are not so important. I'm thinking one step up from 'agricultural' (but still looking nice ). My only concern is handling. I read that some use wooden planes as scrub planes but don't like the handles.

So it might be more of a blend of the euro scrub (short, narrow bladed) and the UK fore plane (longer, wider). Think this is a good idea ?

Anyway - smoothers. Will have a look at the LN #4 and LN #4.5. Kind of keen to get a bronze one.

Thanks
Ed

 

[EdK]

Hi,
Thanks for all the advice.

Realised that I have enough on my plate without making planes - maybe something for the future...

So I went with the Veritas scrub and bought the A2 and the HCS blade just cos I was curious. At the moment it is my favourite plane ! Alot of fun and the chips really fly Needed to fit a beam yesterday and this got it to the right state in no time - can't believe I didn't have one before. Got some skirting boards to fit at a friends house and then (when I have walls) at my house - reckon this will be the right tool for trimming and ripping skirtings to fit.

The A2 blade comes from Canada and the HCS blade from Taiwan. The finishes are quite different - the HCS required more flattening. Not too hard to sharpen, I just sort of rocked it a bit and it seemed to get a good edge on it - it's a scrub so not critical. At any rate the A2 blade holds up better (predictably) but I was after two so I can have less of a curve on one blade.

Also got the LN bronze 4 1/2 - extravagant I know but hey, the scrub wasn't too bad (and I don't pay VAT here - that is a gloat by the way Haven't got it out of hte box as am doing rough work at the moment - criminal I know but there we go.

Next plane (oh sheeet someone mentioned a slope ?) I think will be a Clifton #6 for after the scrub - seems to have the right heft.

Thanks
Ed

 

[woodbloke]

Interesting discussion on scrub planes. I don't use them but on the odd occasions when I've needed to rough out a bit of timber I've used my old woodie with a steeply cambered 50mm wide blade...seems to work well for me - Rob

 

[Aled Dafis]

EdK

Where did you get your hands on a Bronze 4 1/2, they're like hen's teeth. IIRC only 500 were made and they command quite a hefty collectors premium in the US. Im jealous!!

I came very close to ordering one several times, it was just the slow tutting sound in the background that stopped me


Cheers

Aled

 

[dunbarhamlin]

A Cliffie #6 is a fab try and fore plane - one of my faves.

One peculiar thing I find a scrub good for is hogging end grain. I know, sounds unlikely, but try it.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Aled Dafis]

One peculiar thing I find a scrub good for is hogging end grain. I know, sounds unlikely, but try it.

Cheers
Steve

Excuse my ignorance, but why would you want to? Surely a crosscut saw would be more efficient.

Cheers

Aled

PS I've just aquired a Clifton #7 and it's awesome!!!

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Ah - for shaping.
Cliffie #7 was my first (and for a long time only) plane - super kit.

 

[EdK]

Thanks guys,
The LN 4 1/2 bronze ? Just ordered it from Axminster - think that they are not rare... also listed on CHT's too but I was after reno stuff for the house so went with an Ax order.

I can see that with the shaping and so on for the scrub - will give it a go - might be better off with the rasps though (still waiting for an Auriou hog but maybe in October) - as for tutting... hmmm as of a few weeks ago that has stopped so unfortunately (?!) the tool buying restraints are off (until the next tutter...).

Clifton #6 looked the business for a good plane after the scrub - will have a think - missed one on ebay that went for about £120 a few weeks ago. Think I have spent enough on tools at the moment.
Ed

 

[Philly]

Ed
You sure you didn't order a bronze #4? Can't see the 4 1/2 - I believe they were only offered as a special "Anniversary" plane? And believe me, its a very heavy plane!
Philly

 

[EdK]

Ah.. yes... thanks Philly. Glad you know what I bought ! Too much concentration on the scrub. Will go off and eat humble pie number 4 it is, not the stretched version. Right you are Aled and Philly.
The bronze 4 is heavy enough - can't imagine the 4 1/2.

Better go and make something now