Sliding Dovetail

[bobscarle]

I am just starting work on a bookcase that will hang on a wall. The box will be cherry with a plywood back. It will have 2 shelves which will sit in dado's in the sides. The top and bottom will be wider than the sides and longer than the shelves, (does that make sense?). The unit will be hung on the wall by means of a batten, which I believe is called a french cleat.

I think that the best way to connect the sides to the top and bottom is with a sliding dovetail joint. I have never cut one of these. Routing the slots in the top and bottom should be no problem but cutting the dovetail on the sides?

My question is this, would I be better to run the sides through a table mounted router, possibly using some sort of support to keep it upright, or would it be better to construct a jig and clamp that to the side and use a hand held router?

 

[neilc]

While I haven't actually done this joint myself, a table mounted router with a feather board is the way to go in my option using scraps first to get the setup right. Best of look with it sounds like a nice project.
Neil

 

[engineer one]

of course if this were an advertising section we would suggest
its an ideal joint for a woodrat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

but the same logic applies to the router table.
cut the slot in the top and bottom for the dovetail.
then construct the jig.

why?? well your shelf will have to be cut vertically, and you need
vertical support on your router fence to ensure proper stability.
to get your offset, use a woodrat trick, which is to cut a wooden block the
width of your bit, and once you have cut one side of the shelf, you can offset the fence by using the block more easily.
to cut the first side of the shelf i do however agree that you need to use a
scrap to set properly.

hope this helps
paul :wink:

 

[colinc]

I have just done a similar project.

The top and bottom had dovetailed recesses created with a dado jig utilising a template bush.

The verticals were cut on my horizontal router table which is brilliant for such things, Actually my horizontal table has seen more work than my vertical - I think everyone should have one.

regards

Colin

 

[Philly]

BOb
Don't forget-leave the router bit at the same height for both halves of the joints. Easy!
Here's a little cabinet I built that sounds similar to yours.....
http://www.philsville.co.uk/bathroom_cabinet.htm

Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Alf]

Here's a little cabinet I built that sounds similar to yours.....
http://www.philsville.co.uk/bathroom_cabinet.htm

And look what he used...

Duckin' and Runnin', Alf

 

[Chris Knight]

And look what he used...

Duckin' and Runnin', Alf

At least he didn't use £200 worth of hand tools to make mistakes..

Move over Gill, incoming...

 

[Alf]

And look what he used...

Duckin' and Runnin', Alf

At least he didn't use £200 worth of hand tools to make mistakes.

Move over Gill, incoming...

Ooo, nasty. I'm cut to the quick, I am. Anyway I used £900 worth of bandsaw (in a dubious and unsafe manner, which is why I didn't mention it ) to make the mistake... :roll: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[bobscarle]

OK. So I went and looked at a Woodrat. Ouch!!!! Paskins want £475 for the big one and £350 for the small one. A lot of money for one project. How much use do they get? If the tool will be used on a regular basis I will consider buying one.

Philly. Your bathroom cabinet project is much the same as mine, hope it looks as good when its finished. Forgive me if its a stupid question but the Little rat has a maximum router travel of 8". I need to cut a dado of about this length but in a piece about 11" wide. Can the jig be clamped to the board away from the wall mounted piece? Can the Littlerat accomodate an 11" wide board?

 

[engineer one]

at the risk of getting back into the advertising business on martin's behalf, you should think of the rat as different kind of router table which many would suggest is safer and also more effective than others.

many of us would prefer a rat to a normal table, but it is expensive, in one
way. remember though once you have built this unit you will be asked to do more, in which case a rat would be useful.

as for capacity, the big rat will give you about 11inch capacity, whilst you could always turn the piece around to cut the other side of the sliding piece
for use on the small one.

other wise, cut out the most of the dovetail with a straight bit, then a dovetail bit with less to cut out.

hope this also helps, and is not just an advertising puff.

paul :wink:

 

[Nads]

I too have done a similar project, a bookcase from Parana Pine, would post a picture but haven’t worked out have to do that yet? :?

I cut the slots first, using the router out of the table using a clamp guide and my new T11 router.
Remember to use a straight cutter first to start the cut of the slot (a bit less than the full depth of the required slot), it puts less pressure on the wood and the router bit, rather than using the dovetail bit straight away. If you’re doing a deep slot use a sequence of cuts with the straight cutter, rather than one deep. Then run through the straight slot with the dovetail bit. But remember if you are just doing a any stopped sliding dovetail, do not release your plunger on the router but back the router out of the new hole created, otherwise you’ll have a real mess.

Now for the shelves, I cut these just using a standard router table and cut them vertically, you could use a featherboard if you have one. Remember to make sure the profile of the tail will fit nicely in the dovetail. I used scrap pieces of wood and moved the fence backwards and forwards until I got a profile which fitted comfortably in the already cut slots. I must admit I cut my tails a fraction of a millimetre and I mean fraction shorter than the slot to allow for the glue and to make an easier fit. Also remember that if want a nice tight fit, it’s not always possibly to dry fit the bookshelf together first, as you might have trouble getting the joint apart again. :wink: I just offered the shelf in from both end to check the fit first, once I was happy I put glue in the slot and went for it!

Hope this helps

Nads

 

[Steve Maskery]

Nads,
Find yourself some webspace, then use Adam's excellent Sticky
tutorial
Cheers
Steve

 

[Nads]

Cheers Steve,

I'll have to try that out at somepoint then!

Nads

 

[Philipp]

"Routing the slots in the top and bottom should be no problem but cutting the dovetail on the sides? "

Didn't read through all the posts, so maybe it was said already before: why don't you simply use a dovetail plane for that task? Works well, no fettling with set up, silent - and quick!
Check the 'bay and get an old one for a fiver or so and don't worry about hundreds of pounds for noisy machines.

Greetings from a backwarder
Philipp

 

[Anonymous]

Bob

I definitely think you will be better off with a handheld router and guide clamp rather than the table for sliding DTs

Of course, you could buy a 'rat' to do the job instead :roll: but £400+ seems a lot of money when a couple of small clamps and a batton will do nicely :wink:

 

[Neomorph]

The unit will be hung on the wall by means of a batten, which I believe is called a french cleat.

I think Norm's wall hanging system is excellent for something like this. He takes a piece of wood (say 100mm x 18mm x inside width of bookcase) and use a table saw to cut it in two width ways at a 45 degree angle. You then attach the one piece to the wall and the other piece to the bookcase or cabinet you want to wall mount.

Then all you do is drop the bookcase over the mating piece on the wall. No having to fight to hold up the bookcase while you screw it to the wall this way.

 

[bobscarle]

Thanks everyone for the help and tips. I would love to buy a rat but the cost is putting me off. I do want to get a router table for an number of other projects we(?) have to build. For the bookcase I think I will try a hand held router and a homemade jig.

Neomorph. I have used that system to hang a kitchen cabinet / plate rack I built recently. It works really well. No struggling to hold the cabinet up to the wall while you mark for the holes which needs a minimum of 3 hands and the balancing ability of a circus performer.

 

[Jake]

The unit will be hung on the wall by means of a batten, which I believe is called a french cleat.

I think Norm's wall hanging system is excellent for something like this. He takes a piece of wood (say 100mm x 18mm x inside width of bookcase) and use a table saw to cut it in two width ways at a 45 degree angle. You then attach the one piece to the wall and the other piece to the bookcase or cabinet you want to wall mount.

I didn't know Norm invented French cleats!

 

[engineer one]

surely a frenchman invented them :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

two quick thoughts. whether or not you buy a rat, doing the middle dovetail in the rat way has some benefits. by that i mean cut the main part with a flat bit the same width as the top of your dovetail, then the dovetail bit has less material to remove.

second think laterally, and you will see that the rat is a really adaptable router table, and once you cost some of the tables, unless you make your own, the bits can come to some serious money, almost or more than rat money.

still good luck, and certainly the cleats are the way to go, because you get level with only one pair of hands.

paul :wink:

 

[Neomorph]

lol... I said it all wrong... I meant to say that the first time I saw one was when Norm used it on his wall mounted tool box. It's so damned simple and works so well that it's brilliant. I added the diagram as bob wasn't sure if it was a french cleat or a batten heh.

Mind you with Norm I get confused with rabbets and rebates and recessed dado's and dado's you fit to a wall. Order chips over there and you get a packet of crisps... I think the USA should rename their language to Amanglish as it sure aint what we spake 'ere in owd Landon... innit?

Mind you the aussies are just as bad... Just don't go over there and try to parcel up presents and run out of Sellotape. I remember one Jasper Carrot programme where he went into a shop and asked for a roll of Sellotape... apparently the shopkeeper looked at him with amazement... it turns out Sellotape is a brand of condom in Australia... :shock: