Skills shortage: ana American perspective

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Phil,
You are absolutely correct, thank you. I may have run large organisations, but I'm still hopeless at English. A product I'm afraid of a comprehensive education that valued ideas over grammar and spelling.
 
We test everyone, regardless of claimed degrees etc. This includes tests on literacy, numeracy and various technical areas, as well as an array of probity checks Generally you have not verified the qualifications yet at interview (we always deal directly with the college as occasionally certificates are faked). You would be surprised at how weak some people are, even with first class degrees. My HR manager (whom I recruited myself) recruited one person with a law degree from a mid ranking university. She seemed excellent on paper and personality wise, but she was poisonous in the business. It eventually transpired that she had been given credits for large parts of her degree because she had missed vast chunks of the course through depression. She was awarded a 2:1 but in fact had missed entire segments of course work. This direct experience led us to take additional verification measures for recruits now.

It is also unwise to assume that people are remotely literate. I employ a number of PhDs, mostly in maths but one of them got his in a specialised area of engineering them became a derivatives trader in a bank. He is undoubtedly very bright, but very unreliable when it comes to written text. These things matter to clients and also hamper his development because someone else has to check any work that is in any way published. Basic educational standards have fallen in my opinion. We find ourselves picking up some of the slack, particularly with literacy, as it is harder to test in a short period than numeracy.

I wish that we had as a country retained the technical colleges and polytechnic system. Not everyone is or can be academically equal and by no means are all degrees equal.
 
"It is also unwise to assume that people are remotely literate."
A government minister (I forget his name) is on record as saying that a "C" grade GCSE in English or maths is no guarantee of the holder's literacy or numeracy. Sad, very sad.
Another letter in The Times - a guy was running a business (he didn't specify what) that depended on extremely precise written communication, and said he had given up employing English English graduates and preferred to employ Poles and Hungarian ones, as their English was more precise.
 
My apprentice joiners do 4 year apprenticeship, but the course is carpentry and joinery.

I would give my right arm for a joinery only course, as they have to spend time at college learning the art of Paslode, and it is only when they reach level 3 they start to learn second fix they need to know working for me.

This means that they have already been with us 2 years and we have had to teach a lot of the basics of bench joinery and second fix ourselves.

We also run an externally assessed furniture apprenticeship which works, but this means the lad who is doing it only learns our way of doing something and not the alternatives.

From my business perspective is does not matter but I feel the lad is missing out by not going to college, but there are no day release courses near us.
 
phil.p":3ht5drtq said:
"It is also unwise to assume that people are remotely literate."
A government minister (I forget his name) is on record as saying that a "C" grade GCSE in English or maths is no guarantee of the holder's literacy or numeracy. Sad, very sad.
Another letter in The Times - a guy was running a business (he didn't specify what) that depended on extremely precise written communication, and said he had given up employing English English graduates and preferred to employ Poles and Hungarian ones, as their English was more precise.


Oh dear, no wonder I have trouble changing jobs - people must think I'm an ***** with c grade or less in GCSEs.
 
tomatwark":3jv2hx8y said:
My apprentice joiners do 4 year apprenticeship, but the course is carpentry and joinery.

I would give my right arm for a joinery only course, as they have to spend time at college learning the art of Paslode, and it is only when they reach level 3 they start to learn second fix they need to know working for me.

Do you mean their doing roofing and framing first before the second fix stuff?
 
The point I was making is that carpentry and joinery are separate trades really and should be taught as such, especially as more house are being build in timber in the Uk now.

I know some great carpenters, who have said to me in the past the could not do what we do, and I certainly would struggle to do some of the roofs they do.
 

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